Go Back   BearcatTalk.com > Cincinnati Basketball > Bearcat Basketball

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2017, 11:39 AM   #701
justinhub2003
Epic Member
 
justinhub2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,583
justinhub2003 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle View Post
I don't think Brooks was concerning with TOs. He was a true FR C. It'd be weird if he wasn't among the worst rates.
Sure I’m not concerned with his numbers. Just pointing out those who had issues with it.

Mostly just defending Kyle a little bit as while his minutes per TO maybe high, his usage rate was also really high. So it’s a bit misleading
justinhub2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 11:50 AM   #702
justinhub2003
Epic Member
 
justinhub2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,583
justinhub2003 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle View Post
Washington just isn't a good passer. I'd like to see him closer to 20-23 minutes per game this year. He could still get his shots up.
Kyle has improved his TO rate, and assist rate every year while also improving his efficiency. I see no reason why he couldn’t do the same again this year.

I want Kyle on the floor as much as possible except when we need defensive stops. I just want consistency from him.

With Kyle and Gary both on the floor we will be one of the hardest teams in the country to guard. We can bring both bigs out to the perimeter which opens the lanes for very willing drivers cane and jarron.

I love brooks defense but let’s be real here; he is not even close to being the offensive threat Kyle is. And he is a lane clogger. He is, at least now, octavious ellis. We can’t want to play fast and with good movement and also want to play a defensive back to the basket big for 20 minutes.

If Kyle learns to defend a little better this year, then play him
And Gary 28 minutes a game.
justinhub2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 12:19 PM   #703
jacobkdoyle
Epic Member
 
jacobkdoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 17,011
jacobkdoyle is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
If we can get enough production in his absence I would not be opposed to it. Obviously we have other scorers so we may not need him as much. However, he was our highest point per minute guy and he's a decent rebounder when he focuses on it. He can make a 3 when open and he demands attention from opposing D's.

Obviously he has some issues on defense which can be improved upon by putting someone else in but not sure it offsets the point production. We have some depth this year so there will be options to throw out there to see who can get the job done. He does get into foul trouble so there will likely be plenty of opportunity.

I still feel like he will end up getting pretty big minutes in the close games (when not in foul trouble) and Cronin will probably continue to insert him on offense and take him out on D during the final minutes of close games. I still wouldn't mind seeing him in the 28 mpg range...but that is just my preference now without seeing some of the new guys play. Brooks was solid but I'm not sure he is ready for a huge role. I could see him at a Deberry type level giving us 15 mpg though....that would be a significant role.
I think Washington being a high point per minute guy supports my case.
jacobkdoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 12:20 PM   #704
jacobkdoyle
Epic Member
 
jacobkdoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 17,011
jacobkdoyle is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinhub2003 View Post
Sure I’m not concerned with his numbers. Just pointing out those who had issues with it.

Mostly just defending Kyle a little bit as while his minutes per TO maybe high, his usage rate was also really high. So it’s a bit misleading
Yeah Washington is gonna do his thing. No changing that.
jacobkdoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 12:22 PM   #705
jacobkdoyle
Epic Member
 
jacobkdoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 17,011
jacobkdoyle is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinhub2003 View Post
Kyle has improved his TO rate, and assist rate every year while also improving his efficiency. I see no reason why he couldn’t do the same again this year.

I want Kyle on the floor as much as possible except when we need defensive stops. I just want consistency from him.

With Kyle and Gary both on the floor we will be one of the hardest teams in the country to guard. We can bring both bigs out to the perimeter which opens the lanes for very willing drivers cane and jarron.

I love brooks defense but let’s be real here; he is not even close to being the offensive threat Kyle is. And he is a lane clogger. He is, at least now, octavious ellis. We can’t want to play fast and with good movement and also want to play a defensive back to the basket big for 20 minutes.

If Kyle learns to defend a little better this year, then play him
And Gary 28 minutes a game.
I don't see Brooks as a lane clogger at all. He moves very well and could be a huge asset in a screen and roll game with Broome.

The more Brooks plays, the faster we can play. Bc he and Washington could theoretically sub in and out every few minutes. Many times last year Washington had to power walk up the floor bc he was so gassed.
jacobkdoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 01:17 PM   #706
waterhead
Senior Moderator
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
waterhead is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle View Post
I think Washington being a high point per minute guy supports my case.
How so? We would need someone who is just as good or better in the plus/minus category to fill his minutes...and if we had that we wouldn't really need him to play 20 mpg. He would just become the back up to the superior player. I am not sure Brooks is superior from a plus/minus perspective...in fact I would doubt it. But I certainly hope I am wrong here because that would mean very good things for us.

It's all about plus/minus to me. Does the team score more than they give up when player A or B is in the game? You put that player (best in plus/minus) in the game.

Perhaps we can make a case where player A or B gets too tired and there is a point of diminishing returns but there would have to be evidence that this is happening.
waterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 01:26 PM   #707
jacobkdoyle
Epic Member
 
jacobkdoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 17,011
jacobkdoyle is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
How so? We would need someone who is just as good or better in the plus/minus category to fill his minutes...and if we had that we wouldn't really need him to play 20 mpg. He would just become the back up to the superior player. I am not sure Brooks is superior from a plus/minus perspective...in fact I would doubt it. But I certainly hope I am wrong here because that would mean very good things for us.

It's all about plus/minus to me. Does the team score more than they give up when player A or B is in the game? You put that player (best in plus/minus) in the game.

Perhaps we can make a case where player A or B gets too tired and there is a point of diminishing returns but there would have to be evidence that this is happening.
That's what I'm getting at. Based on how tired he got in faster games or in more minutes, I'm thinking that efficiency would drop the more he plays. Brooks himself might not benefit PER-wise, but our overall defensive numbers will certainly improve with him in. We'll see how it goes bc you're right, the +/- ultimately matters. But I don't think Brooks has to score a ton for our team to remain efficient offensively. We're lucky enough to have a ton of options.
jacobkdoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 04:54 PM   #708
juckerrules
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 520
juckerrules is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
How so? We would need someone who is just as good or better in the plus/minus category to fill his minutes...and if we had that we wouldn't really need him to play 20 mpg. He would just become the back up to the superior player. I am not sure Brooks is superior from a plus/minus perspective...in fact I would doubt it. But I certainly hope I am wrong here because that would mean very good things for us.

It's all about plus/minus to me. Does the team score more than they give up when player A or B is in the game? You put that player (best in plus/minus) in the game.

Perhaps we can make a case where player A or B gets too tired and there is a point of diminishing returns but there would have to be evidence that this is happening.
I like the plus/minus with one caveat; match-ups..there are some where one player will excel over another but with a different match-up, the opposite could be true. Some guys don't do well against really physical players, or quicker guys who can hit threes etc. I think Kyle is overall on the plus side, but could improve as could they all.
juckerrules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2017, 11:07 PM   #709
justinhub2003
Epic Member
 
justinhub2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,583
justinhub2003 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle View Post
I don't see Brooks as a lane clogger at all. He moves very well and could be a huge asset in a screen and roll game with Broome.

The more Brooks plays, the faster we can play. Bc he and Washington could theoretically sub in and out every few minutes. Many times last year Washington had to power walk up the floor bc he was so gassed.
I’m speaking of spacing and respecting his jump shot. If brooks goes to the perimeter to set a screen or play out that far, if I’m his defender I’m giving him that shot until he shows he can make it and just staying in the lane. That’s what I mean by lane clogger. His man can play 1 man zone in the paint because we haven’t seen a jump shot from him, you absolutely cannot do that against Kyle, he hit 35% of his 3’s
justinhub2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 06:53 AM   #710
BearcatRip
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 42
BearcatRip is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle View Post
That's what I'm getting at. Based on how tired he got in faster games or in more minutes, I'm thinking that efficiency would drop the more he plays. Brooks himself might not benefit PER-wise, but our overall defensive numbers will certainly improve with him in. We'll see how it goes bc you're right, the +/- ultimately matters. But I don't think Brooks has to score a ton for our team to remain efficient offensively. We're lucky enough to have a ton of options.
I agree with Jacob here. Good points.
BearcatRip is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., - All material on this Cincinnati Bearcat discussion forum is strictly for entertainment purposes only. This site and any pages within are in no way affiliated with the University of Cincinnati. Any images, copyrights, or trademarks used on this site are used under the "Fair Use Provision" of the Copyright Act for purposes of comment, criticism, and news reporting.