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View Poll Results: What will be the outcome?
UC wins by 25+ 13 40.63%
UC wins by 15-24 15 46.88%
UC wins by 1-14 4 12.50%
USF wins 0 0%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-12-2018, 03:31 PM   #41
sedziobs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincrulz11 View Post
guys that just spot up shooters are going to have artificially higher rates
Spot up shooters will have artificially LOWER turnover rates. The point is that we can't use TORate alone to reject Mick's claims that Evans and Jenifer don't turn the ball over. Time on the ball needs to be considered, and TORate doesn't do that. I think Jenifer's 15.1 rate is incredibly low considering how infrequently he shoots.

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Old 01-12-2018, 03:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
Spot up shooters will have artificially LOWER turnover rates. The point is that we can't use TORate alone to reject Mick's claims that Evans and Jenifer don't turn the ball over. Time on the ball needs to be considered, and TORate doesn't do that. I think Jenifer's 15.1 rate is incredibly low considering how infrequently he shoots.

yeah that was me just trying to do two things and once and typing higher instead of lower.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
Spot up shooters will have artificially LOWER turnover rates. The point is that we can't use TORate alone to reject Mick's claims that Evans and Jenifer don't turn the ball over. Time on the ball needs to be considered, and TORate doesn't do that. I think Jenifer's 15.1 rate is incredibly low considering how infrequently he shoots.

because jenifer went through an insane clip of not turning it over in 6 of the first 8 games of the season. I believe his TOrate was around 7 midway through december if my memory is correct.



and the other side of that is as he's become more active, which he has been, the turnovers have started showing up. earlier in the year he rarely attempted to penetrate and didn't get himself into too many situations where turnovers are likely. he has definitely looked to be more aggressive with the ball the last 5 or so games i'd say. his assists have gone up win that time frame as well.

Last edited by cincrulz11; 01-12-2018 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:46 PM   #44
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Jenifer has an impressive TO Rate progression through his career in Tier A&B games.

2016: 34.5
2017: 24.0
2018: 13.9

Not bad.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:53 PM   #45
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:37 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
Jenifer has an impressive TO Rate progression through his career in Tier A&B games.

2016: 34.5
2017: 24.0
2018: 13.9

Not bad.

btw do you have any idea what his formula for TOrate is? His numbers are all higher than TOV%. maybe he has a way to factor in offensive rebounds off a players missed shots?
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:03 PM   #47
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btw do you have any idea what his formula for TOrate is? His numbers are all higher than TOV%. maybe he has a way to factor in offensive rebounds off a players missed shots?
He does exactly that. TORate is "the percentage of personal possessions used on turnovers". Personal possessions are defined as "making a shot, missing a shot that isnít rebounded by the offense, or committing a turnover".
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:29 PM   #48
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and maybe the review of the temple tape was an aha moment for mick. somebody told me mick talked about pace again last night and said if we're stuck in a rock fight like vs temple anybody can win that game.



lets hope he takes it to heart and lets these guys go.
I wonder how our tempo changes with Cane vs Jenifer?
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:36 PM   #49
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Here's some more on TORate from Professor Pomeroy:

"It is highly dependent on context, but anything below 15% is great. Average in 2005 was around 20%. Point guards are typically in the 20-25% range due to the nature of their position. Players that do little passing or dribbling will have an artificially deflated TO%."
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:01 AM   #50
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UC 83
South Florida 58

I'll be disappointed if we in any way let them dictate how this game goes.
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