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[UCBearcats]

Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle

This is the line that I'll never understand. No one has ever said we should be playing 2 on 5. I think the disconnect in the argument has to do with what "pushing the pace" entails. It's transitioning quickly from defense to offense. Simple as that. Just bc they have guys back doesn't mean you can't still run. And I don't mean run as in fast break. I literally mean running instead of walking. Nothing about Caupain's demeanor screams "LET'S GO!". I mean, even on dead balls...A team that is serious about higher possessions doesn't catch it 2 feet from the baseline and take 8 seconds to get it up the floor against no press. We seriously might as well roll the ball inbounds and pick it up closer halfcourt. I'd honestly prefer that. We waste literally minutes every game watching Caupain walk at 3 mph. So a team getting back shouldn't slow us down as much as we let it. Fact is, our pace is still in the 300s. So I get that it seems fast for Cronin and Caupain, but it actually isn't. Little things happen all game that let me know that we're not all that interested in anything uptempo when it really comes down to it. When push comes to shove, we have a comfort zone that holds us back from truly competing. And this really manifests itself away from home.

You know what's funny is that Mick has talked a lot in the past about the loose press we play sometimes and that the intent of it isn't to force a turnover but to eat into the shot clock. To give the other team less time to execute on offense in the half court once they get the ball across and get their offense set.

The crazy part, as you detailed above, is that Mick doesn't seem to mind at all that we willingly waste the first 10-15 seconds of our shot clock every time we walk the ball up the floor. So Mick believes that playing a loose press gives us a big advantage over our opponents by eating into the possession but doesn't acknowledge that we're hurting our self by doing the exact same thing????

[jds513]

Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle

This is the line that I'll never understand. No one has ever said we should be playing 2 on 5. I think the disconnect in the argument has to do with what "pushing the pace" entails. It's transitioning quickly from defense to offense. Simple as that. Just bc they have guys back doesn't mean you can't still run. And I don't mean run as in fast break. I literally mean running instead of walking. Nothing about Caupain's demeanor screams "LET'S GO!". I mean, even on dead balls...A team that is serious about higher possessions doesn't catch it 2 feet from the baseline and take 8 seconds to get it up the floor against no press. We seriously might as well roll the ball inbounds and pick it up closer halfcourt. I'd honestly prefer that. We waste literally minutes every game watching Caupain walk at 3 mph. So a team getting back shouldn't slow us down as much as we let it. Fact is, our pace is still in the 300s. So I get that it seems fast for Cronin and Caupain, but it actually isn't. Little things happen all game that let me know that we're not all that interested in anything uptempo when it really comes down to it. When push comes to shove, we have a comfort zone that holds us back from truly competing. And this really manifests itself away from home.

Well said Jacob

[Doogle]

Disagree with the assessment of Mick's offense. I've seen a lot of good in UC's half court sets this season. Mick has brought Clark out high at times and used him as a drive and kick guy, he's posted him up and let him pass out that way. Ball movement has been pretty good. A vast improvement over last year. The passing numbers don't lie: right now UC has 397 assists as a team. Last year they had 394 assists for the season (9 more games). Or, looking at it another way:

2014-15 (34 games): 394 assists, 432 turnovers
2015-16 (25 games): 397 assists, 284 turnovers

Only 8 fewer steals right now than last year. Shooting % negligible, 3 pt % up overall (Troy's is down, but he's shot way more this year).

I'd argue that the perception of "turtle ball" is rooted in the inexplicable spurts of ineptitude the Bearcats experience in almost every game. 4-7 minute periods (sometimes longer) where it seems like they can't buy a hoop. No data to support it but my eyeballs tell me that the percentage of wide open or easily convertible shots UC has generated here is way up from last season or maybe any other season in the Mick era. That's the frustration in the offense from my perspective - that they're simply not cashing in on the opportunities that they have at an acceptable rate.

[jacobkdoyle]

Originally Posted by Doogle

Disagree with the assessment of Mick's offense. I've seen a lot of good in UC's half court sets this season. Mick has brought Clark out high at times and used him as a drive and kick guy, he's posted him up and let him pass out that way. Ball movement has been pretty good. A vast improvement over last year. The passing numbers don't lie: right now UC has 397 assists as a team. Last year they had 394 assists for the season (9 more games). Or, looking at it another way:

2014-15 (34 games): 394 assists, 432 turnovers
2015-16 (25 games): 397 assists, 284 turnovers

Only 8 fewer steals right now than last year. Shooting % negligible, 3 pt % up overall (Troy's is down, but he's shot way more this year).

I'd argue that the perception of "turtle ball" is rooted in the inexplicable spurts of ineptitude the Bearcats experience in almost every game. 4-7 minute periods (sometimes longer) where it seems like they can't buy a hoop. No data to support it but my eyeballs tell me that the percentage of wide open or easily convertible shots UC has generated here is way up from last season or maybe any other season in the Mick era. That's the frustration in the offense from my perspective - that they're simply not cashing in on the opportunities that they have at an acceptable rate.

I definitely agree that the halfcourt offense as a whole has been much improved since last year. Helps with spacing, as you mentioned, when we have a guy like Clark who can really do everything. As for those scoring droughts...it seems like in conference they have happened to us more down the stretch. Imo it's bc we start shutting things down way too early. It's like the game can't end soon enough and we are desperately trying to hang on and bleed out the clock. Problem is, this starts (particularly in conference road games) before the under 8 minute media timeout. Makes for a hell of a struggle to the finish. Maybe I'm just forgetting, but I can't think of a single time in the final 10 minutes of @SMU, @USF, or @UConn where Caupain has had the offense hauling ass down the floor, looking for an easy one. We basically act like we aren't allowed to and we go into "crunch time mode"...way before actual crunch time. You can see the tightness. And when Cronin teams (or any college teams really) tighten up, they don't score. We basically put restrictions on ourselves bc we fear the big moments are coming. And the guys stop playing the way they had the previous 30+ minutes. Sometimes we can still squeak out the Ws. But even when that happens, seems like the scoring down the stretch really grinds to a halt. I dunno. Jmo.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle

I definitely agree that the halfcourt offense as a whole has been much improved since last year. Helps with spacing, as you mentioned, when we have a guy like Clark who can really do everything. As for those scoring droughts...it seems like in conference they have happened to us more down the stretch. Imo it's bc we start shutting things down way too early. It's like the game can't end soon enough and we are desperately trying to hang on and bleed out the clock. Problem is, this starts (particularly in conference road games) before the under 8 minute media timeout. Makes for a hell of a struggle to the finish. Maybe I'm just forgetting, but I can't think of a single time in the final 10 minutes of @SMU, @USF, or @UConn where Caupain has had the offense hauling ass down the floor, looking for an easy one. We basically act like we aren't allowed to and we go into "crunch time mode"...way before actual crunch time. You can see the tightness. And when Cronin teams (or any college teams really) tighten up, they don't score. We basically put restrictions on ourselves bc we fear the big moments are coming. And the guys stop playing the way they had the previous 30+ minutes. Sometimes we can still squeak out the Ws. But even when that happens, seems like the scoring down the stretch really grinds to a halt. I dunno. Jmo.

jacob all teams run click with the lead in the latter stages of a game. It was a wide open missed 3 early in the shot clock that could have started the run at SMU. I guess there is a fine line between keeping the pressure on or milking the clock.at times we are forced to slow down because of foul trouble.

[TheLongHaul]

Originally Posted by Chad Brendel

Newsflash: Troy isn't fast. He isn't beating the defense end to end with speed. I've been saying for almost 3 years now for him to play "fast" it has to be by moving the ball quickly up the wing with passing. When it is there, this team is at its most efficient and when it isn't they play a slower tempo.

UL is a great example of this. When they had Siva and Russ Smith they relentlessly beat teams end to end with pure end to end speed. Now they have bigger guards and to run they do it by quickly advancing the ball up the wings with outlet passing.

This is a bigger team that isn't constructed to fly up and down the floor and beat you with speed. They can still play fast at times when the defense isn't sending 3 and 4 guys back to clog the lane, so it is done more by forcing live ball turnovers and attacking from there. When turnovers forced are up, they score in the 70s. When those numbers are down, the game slows considerably...

Now the excuse is that Troy is too slow to play up-tempo? What a bunch of crap. Anyone that's ever played basketball knows you don't have to be blazing fast to play up-tempo.

And this team isn't that big. Ellis even after putting on weight is still on the lighter side. Absolutely no reason he shouldn't excel in an up tempo game. Shaq? KJ? Cobb? All better in up tempo.

Originally Posted by Bearcat_NTS

Might not be wise for Mick to tell us all summer about how fast the team is going to play (again)...

Ha, no kidding. Or how this is going to be his best team ever. Not that I believe him on the playing fast part.

Originally Posted by jds513

The best fast break teams don't just dribble up the court with pure speed. They pass the ball up the floor quickly. You don't have to have raw speed to get the ball up the floor. We've all watched this team score more points and score them more efficiently when they play fast. Watch North Carolina play. One of the highest tempo teams year after year. I assure you Marcus Paige isn't running up and down the floor faster than the opposition. No, they pass the ball up the floor quickly and score points. It's not rocket science. We were told there would be a faster style. And we've seen it work. THEY PLAY BETTER THAT WAY. So why aren't we doing it all the time? Make them play faster. It's simple.

Exactly. This team is light years better when pushing the pace. Not to mention that it just maybe would wake them up a bit and help them play with energy which has been a major struggle.

Originally Posted by Chad Brendel

They are playing much faster and scoring considerably more than a year ago with essentially the same roster. When you are adjusting a system, it is very rarely done in one year.

This season so far has been a step in the right direction, but they still have limitations when it comes to playing end to end given the roster at hand. Easy to ignore that and just pound the old and tired talking points to death. Keep doing you, though...

Step in the right direction? How is having your best team, one that a bunch of people thought could make a deep run in the tourny, yet is on the bubble being a step in the right direction?

Now your excuse is they are adjusting the system. Do you sit at home and just think of things to make up? If that is the case, maybe it's not a good idea to adjust the system when you have the best roster you'll likely have for a while. Especially if as you say, it's rarely done in a year. Not that this system is really any different than in the past.

Roster is fine. The coaching this year has not been.

[M64W]

I believe Mick has changed caused by his medical problem last year. I respect him for that, but the coaching profession calls for an intense leader, driven to succeed, that will not in any way allow complacency to set in among the ranks. I believe that the problems incurred mellowed Mick out faster than normal. I do not see the fire in his belly that he had at one time. Sorry to say that!

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by M64W

I believe Mick has changed caused by his medical problem last year. I respect him for that, but the coaching profession calls for an intense leader, driven to succeed, that will not in any way allow complacency to set in among the ranks. I believe that the problems incurred mellowed Mick out faster than normal. I do not see the fire in his belly that he had at one time. Sorry to say that!

What is it your looking for? A basket here or a basket there and we would be very happy with this team. Season isn't over yet. If we make a run in Tourney will the fire have returned?

[Doogle]

Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2

What is it your looking for? A basket here or a basket there and we would be very happy with this team. Season isn't over yet. If we make a run in Tourney will the fire have returned?

Yes. The team is much improved this season. Some very tough losses, inexplicable bad starts, etc have hurt the perception. AAC is better as well, at least in the mushy middle. Tulsa is coming on strong. Houston is a tough out, especially at home.

Bearcats will be a tough tourney out should they get in. Win your home games, fight through Tulsa and Houston on the road, and you're there.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by Doogle

Yes. The team is much improved this season. Some very tough losses, inexplicable bad starts, etc have hurt the perception. AAC is better as well, at least in the mushy middle. Tulsa is coming on strong. Houston is a tough out, especially at home.

Bearcats will be a tough tourney out should they get in. Win your home games, fight through Tulsa and Houston on the road, and you're there.

My thoughts as well Doogle. This is a anything can happen year in the NCAA. Need to get to the Dance. Getting their with the hole we have dug will not be easy. That said it is doable.