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View Poll Results: What will be the outcome?
UC wins by 15+ 10 30.30%
UC wins by 10-14 13 39.39%
UC wins by 1-9 8 24.24%
Temple wins 2 6.06%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-23-2018, 10:48 AM   #31
cincrulz11
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Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
I think Cincrulz11 has done a very good job of keeping track of plus minus lately with the PG's. I wish we still had a site available that did all that work for us but I appreciate the work he has done.

the UC twitter page posts a link for each game to a stats page, usually sidearmsports. they actually track substitutions so tallying up the +/- is pretty easy.


the only catch is that website doesn't keep statistics for the year, just 1 games worth (it will keep the stats up until the home team plays another home game)


i only clicked the link the first time 3 games ago so thats why ive been able to post them. without those i had to go through and basically watch the game and note when players come in and out and thats just a pain.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:07 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle View Post
Yeah that should be a rule. You pick the opponent, especially in our gym, you need to explain yourself.
Has to be a troll.

We have the nations longest winning streak, If duke comes to UC, Im picking UC.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:40 AM   #33
jacobkdoyle
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Originally Posted by cincrulz11 View Post
the UC twitter page posts a link for each game to a stats page, usually sidearmsports. they actually track substitutions so tallying up the +/- is pretty easy.


the only catch is that website doesn't keep statistics for the year, just 1 games worth (it will keep the stats up until the home team plays another home game)


i only clicked the link the first time 3 games ago so thats why ive been able to post them. without those i had to go through and basically watch the game and note when players come in and out and thats just a pain.
I've thought about checking subs before bc they have that on ESPN play-by-play but it doesn't show the score and I'm too lazy to tally it. Glad you have a system that works!
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:41 AM   #34
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I went with 10-14 margin. They took away all of our driving ability in the first game and I expect them to do the same in this one. I don't think we can win by 20+ if we can't get through that front line (cue Broome). However, I expect to rebound better and turn it over much less.

Comfortable win...but not a blowout.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:10 PM   #35
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Well David, although this is blasphemy, you may have a point. There's reading the defense, then there is standing and holding the ball. As you mention though, Clark did seem to respond and has really cranked up the urgency. Let's hope that continues. We have to keep the ball moving.

Where I disagree is when you say Broome coming in isn't typically what jumpstarts us. People have pointed out the +/- numbers. And it's the most apples to apples you can get with that stat when you're talking about the same position. And it's a consistent thing. It's not like Broome has had the edge there in just a game here or there. Maybe he doesn't come in and just start completely changing the game from the first possession. But him pressing the issue and finding the gaps for easy looks and FT attempts is exactly the right recipe when we are off to a slower start. It's a good way for an electric player to get himself in the game. And it also freaks out the other team's coaching staff I'm sure bc there's no doubt Broome is a big point of emphasis when scouting us. It loosens up the game. And that benefits us bc we are just flat out more talented than the teams we play.
My point on Broome is it's not like he comes in the game and the team immediately starts playing better, which is what many people on here suggest. Usually his first stint in the game the team plays no different. Only game where I remember that not being the case is the Xavier game. There's plenty of games this year and recently where he comes in and the team as a whole still struggles. For whatever reason this team comes out tight, can't hit shots, Clark isn't aggressive, Evans doesn't look for his shots. That has nothing to do with Cane or Justin. The only argument I could make for this is we eventually play better because he puts the ball in Evans hands more when Cane is in. That usually opens up Evans' game. When Justin is in there, Evans is pretty much just a three point guy. And I think part of that, again, is we start the game feeding the post. That's on Cronin, Justin executes the game plan he's asked to. I will say, to his credit, Cane seems to be more effective in the press than Justin has. Partly because we press more purposefully with the "second team" in and also he's aggressive at getting his hands on balls. Generating turnovers will jump start an offense. So while the numbers don't lie by the end of the game that when Cane is in there the team starts playing better, I think there's plenty of factors besides cane being in there over Justin. If it were that simple, Cronin and the staff would see it and make the change. We think there's some sort of conspiracy theory or something but that's hogwash. Cronin wants to win and will utilize the best players and game plan he knows how to to make that happen. He has used Cane very effectively and is molding him into the TEAM player he expects him to be. My biggest gripe is I wish Jenifer's assist numbers were higher but part of that is guys just are missing shot after shot to start these games, i.e. Clark, Cumberland and Evans. When they get going, the team gets going and it's not as simple as Cane is the one that jumpstarts their games cause there's no statistical evidence of that. Honestly it could be just as much once our opponent goes to their bench and muddies their five on the floor our superiority takes over that much more. And once we start pressing and generating turnovers it leads to easy baskets and relaxes the team.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by david aka the TYZ View Post
My point on Broome is it's not like he comes in the game and the team immediately starts playing better, which is what many people on here suggest. Usually his first stint in the game the team plays no different. Only game where I remember that not being the case is the Xavier game. There's plenty of games this year and recently where he comes in and the team as a whole still struggles. For whatever reason this team comes out tight, can't hit shots, Clark isn't aggressive, Evans doesn't look for his shots. That has nothing to do with Cane or Justin. The only argument I could make for this is we eventually play better because he puts the ball in Evans hands more when Cane is in. That usually opens up Evans' game. When Justin is in there, Evans is pretty much just a three point guy. And I think part of that, again, is we start the game feeding the post. That's on Cronin, Justin executes the game plan he's asked to. I will say, to his credit, Cane seems to be more effective in the press than Justin has. Partly because we press more purposefully with the "second team" in and also he's aggressive at getting his hands on balls. Generating turnovers will jump start an offense. So while the numbers don't lie by the end of the game that when Cane is in there the team starts playing better, I think there's plenty of factors besides cane being in there over Justin. If it were that simple, Cronin and the staff would see it and make the change. We think there's some sort of conspiracy theory or something but that's hogwash. Cronin wants to win and will utilize the best players and game plan he knows how to to make that happen. He has used Cane very effectively and is molding him into the TEAM player he expects him to be. My biggest gripe is I wish Jenifer's assist numbers were higher but part of that is guys just are missing shot after shot to start these games, i.e. Clark, Cumberland and Evans. When they get going, the team gets going and it's not as simple as Cane is the one that jumpstarts their games cause there's no statistical evidence of that. Honestly it could be just as much once our opponent goes to their bench and muddies their five on the floor our superiority takes over that much more. And once we start pressing and generating turnovers it leads to easy baskets and relaxes the team.
David couldn't agree more. Was at last game and Gary in particular had some very makeable opportunities and missed them. If we make some of those shots we are not off to such a slow start. JJ can't make the shots for them.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by david aka the TYZ View Post
My point on Broome is it's not like he comes in the game and the team immediately starts playing better, which is what many people on here suggest.
I am not sure it's a case where fans are saying there is an immediate impact on the game as soon as Cane comes in. I don't recall hearing that but I do recall hearing an overall advantage in plus minus.

Even if we throw out the first 5 minutes of every road game and chalk it up to "getting comfortable" (which we would still need to fix by the way)...I would imagine Cane's overall plus minus is still far better.

If we get comfortable faster when Cane is in...that's about all I need to hear. That tells me something about chemistry and who the other players might prefer being in the game.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:38 PM   #38
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David couldn't agree more. Was at last game and Gary in particular had some very makeable opportunities and missed them. If we make some of those shots we are not off to such a slow start. JJ can't make the shots for them.
Gary has been missing bunnies all year because he wants to get them up so fast so it doesn't get blocked. It happens early and late in games. I think coach pulled him aside last game (mid game) and basically told him to go up strong with both hands and don't hurry so much. One of the few teaching moments Cronin has left with Gary outside of staying aggressive.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:39 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by david aka the TYZ View Post
My point on Broome is it's not like he comes in the game and the team immediately starts playing better, which is what many people on here suggest. Usually his first stint in the game the team plays no different. Only game where I remember that not being the case is the Xavier game. There's plenty of games this year and recently where he comes in and the team as a whole still struggles. For whatever reason this team comes out tight, can't hit shots, Clark isn't aggressive, Evans doesn't look for his shots. That has nothing to do with Cane or Justin. The only argument I could make for this is we eventually play better because he puts the ball in Evans hands more when Cane is in. That usually opens up Evans' game. When Justin is in there, Evans is pretty much just a three point guy. And I think part of that, again, is we start the game feeding the post. That's on Cronin, Justin executes the game plan he's asked to. I will say, to his credit, Cane seems to be more effective in the press than Justin has. Partly because we press more purposefully with the "second team" in and also he's aggressive at getting his hands on balls. Generating turnovers will jump start an offense. So while the numbers don't lie by the end of the game that when Cane is in there the team starts playing better, I think there's plenty of factors besides cane being in there over Justin. If it were that simple, Cronin and the staff would see it and make the change. We think there's some sort of conspiracy theory or something but that's hogwash. Cronin wants to win and will utilize the best players and game plan he knows how to to make that happen. He has used Cane very effectively and is molding him into the TEAM player he expects him to be. My biggest gripe is I wish Jenifer's assist numbers were higher but part of that is guys just are missing shot after shot to start these games, i.e. Clark, Cumberland and Evans. When they get going, the team gets going and it's not as simple as Cane is the one that jumpstarts their games cause there's no statistical evidence of that. Honestly it could be just as much once our opponent goes to their bench and muddies their five on the floor our superiority takes over that much more. And once we start pressing and generating turnovers it leads to easy baskets and relaxes the team.
Nice post. I think we're on the same page on a lot of this. I am also saying that we don't just immediately get better from the jump with Broome...but we are better with him. So maybe it's a slow 5 minutes with Jenifer and a slow 5 minutes of Broome, then we get going with Broome. Might not work this way, but if you shift the 5 Jenifer minutes to another point in the half, you could theoretically get going sooner (talk about junk science). And as you mention, this isn't just about Broome. It can be about getting Evans going sooner too. It is on the coaching to decide how we want to start each game. Going to the post early has been the choice. With Broome, you could have a pick and roll option, or Evans operating. It would be good to mix it up depending on the opponent. Broome as the PG in the first 8-10 seconds of the clock and probing is a key gear for us. I just want more of it tbh.

On the subject of the press, Trevon Scott is a huge asset. He can trap and eat up angles while our quickest guy cuts off the sideline. That's so huge. He's going to continue to make more and more plays as the season goes on. I can feel it. And we're going to have a real shot to have the #1 defense in the country next year. Moore and Williams learning for another year. Cumberland and Evans would be the best wing defenders in the AAC (with Trevor Moore the dog on their heels). Our quick PGs causing stress. And we had a thread about the future frontcourt a couple weeks back, I can't imagine people are all that worried about at least the 5 at this point. Brooks and Nsoseme, plus Scott if need be. That's some good rim protection and mobility at minimum. I'm looking forward to that.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:47 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by david aka the TYZ View Post
My point on Broome is it's not like he comes in the game and the team immediately starts playing better, which is what many people on here suggest. Usually his first stint in the game the team plays no different. Only game where I remember that not being the case is the Xavier game. There's plenty of games this year and recently where he comes in and the team as a whole still struggles. For whatever reason this team comes out tight, can't hit shots, Clark isn't aggressive, Evans doesn't look for his shots. That has nothing to do with Cane or Justin. The only argument I could make for this is we eventually play better because he puts the ball in Evans hands more when Cane is in. That usually opens up Evans' game. When Justin is in there, Evans is pretty much just a three point guy. And I think part of that, again, is we start the game feeding the post. That's on Cronin, Justin executes the game plan he's asked to. I will say, to his credit, Cane seems to be more effective in the press than Justin has. Partly because we press more purposefully with the "second team" in and also he's aggressive at getting his hands on balls. Generating turnovers will jump start an offense. So while the numbers don't lie by the end of the game that when Cane is in there the team starts playing better, I think there's plenty of factors besides cane being in there over Justin. If it were that simple, Cronin and the staff would see it and make the change. We think there's some sort of conspiracy theory or something but that's hogwash. Cronin wants to win and will utilize the best players and game plan he knows how to to make that happen. He has used Cane very effectively and is molding him into the TEAM player he expects him to be. My biggest gripe is I wish Jenifer's assist numbers were higher but part of that is guys just are missing shot after shot to start these games, i.e. Clark, Cumberland and Evans. When they get going, the team gets going and it's not as simple as Cane is the one that jumpstarts their games cause there's no statistical evidence of that. Honestly it could be just as much once our opponent goes to their bench and muddies their five on the floor our superiority takes over that much more. And once we start pressing and generating turnovers it leads to easy baskets and relaxes the team.
I should have mentioned this could be a huge factor. We have no reason to play Jenifer on the wing with Evans running point...but we do when Cane is in the game. If this is the reason we are better when Cane is in the game...so be it. We still have the option of clearing out for either Cane or Evans when Cane is in...but we do not clear out for Jenifer at any point in any game.
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