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Old 10-01-2013, 10:33 PM   #1
JumpinJack5
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I don't think managers mean a whole lot in baseball, but Dusty was absurd tonight. While it didn't end up hurting us because we can't hit worth a shit, who puts Logan Ondrusek into a one-game playoff? Also, it was sad thinking this will probably be it for Choo and Arroyo. Both were solid players and we will miss them next year. I wouldn't mind changing managers, although I don't know how much of a difference it would make. Jacoby should be gone, we can't hit worth a lick. If we decide to stay internal for a manager, I think Price and Riggleman both would get a decent shot at it.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:22 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by JumpinJack5 View Post
I don't think managers mean a whole lot in baseball, but Dusty was absurd tonight. While it didn't end up hurting us because we can't hit worth a shit, who puts Logan Ondrusek into a one-game playoff? Also, it was sad thinking this will probably be it for Choo and Arroyo. Both were solid players and we will miss them next year. I wouldn't mind changing managers, although I don't know how much of a difference it would make. Jacoby should be gone, we can't hit worth a lick. If we decide to stay internal for a manager, I think Price and Riggleman both would get a decent shot at it.
Don't care who manages the team if we don't get a right handed bat for the middle of the order. They will pitch around Joey next year again. The fact that Cueto didn't last 4 innings dictated we would have to use lots of Bull pen arms.Everyone points the finger at Dusty. He didn't sign Ludwick to a 2 year deal or have him seperate his shoulder opening day. He didn't sign Braxton to a 2 year deal then use Chapman as a closer. Without those two contracts we coud have landed a RH bat for the middle of the order. when the reds get productin out of LF with a righthanded bat such as Gomes or as Ludwick did last year they walk away with this division. 2010 and 2012 will tell you that. as far as Jacoby goes these guys need to change there approach in the instruction thye are getting in the minor leagues. Not very practical to get a guy who made it to the bigs to change what got him there. Dusty is far from the problem with this team and manges like 90% of the other managers in the game. He looks good when players execute and bad when they don't. Not having yor ace pitcher for msot of the year,starting middle of the order bat,and two of your top set up guys and still win 90 games is acceptable. If walt can land another RH bat we wil we division next year. Hamilton will replace Choo and give us better speed and defense and Cingrani will take Arroyo's place.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:26 AM   #3
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agree 100%. if the firings are to start, I would prefer they start with Jacoby. Reds team BA over .260 ONCE over the last 6 years. for some teams that might be acceptable; it's not acceptable for the roster the Reds have/had.

I'm not a dusty hater by any means, but leaving Cueto in that long was ridiculous. The box score for Cueto doesn't speak loudly enough. EVERYONE was connecting off of him. He should have been yanked after giving up the 2nd bomb (didn't have the luxury of a 7 game series). Buccos did their homework and they saw Cueto's release plain as day.

And I agree Jack, at no point in that game is it acceptable to see Ondrusek. Each playoff round allows for a new roster to be submitted. The WC is a round, itself.

Much props to the pirates, though. They played one hell of a game!
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2 View Post
Don't care who manages the team if we don't get a right handed bat for the middle of the order. They will pitch around Joey next year again. The fact that Cueto didn't last 4 innings dictated we would have to use lots of Bull pen arms.Everyone points the finger at Dusty. He didn't sign Ludwick to a 2 year deal or have him seperate his shoulder opening day. He didn't sign Braxton to a 2 year deal then use Chapman as a closer. Without those two contracts we coud have landed a RH bat for the middle of the order. when the reds get productin out of LF with a righthanded bat such as Gomes or as Ludwick did last year they walk away with this division. 2010 and 2012 will tell you that. as far as Jacoby goes these guys need to change there approach in the instruction thye are getting in the minor leagues. Not very practical to get a guy who made it to the bigs to change what got him there. Dusty is far from the problem with this team and manges like 90% of the other managers in the game. He looks good when players execute and bad when they don't. Not having yor ace pitcher for msot of the year,starting middle of the order bat,and two of your top set up guys and still win 90 games is acceptable. If walt can land another RH bat we wil we division next year. Hamilton will replace Choo and give us better speed and defense and Cingrani will take Arroyo's place.
Agree 100%. Although I do think the Reds should make a play at both Arroyo and Choo. Hamilton is not ready to be an everyday player. He brought excitement to the game but history is not in his favor to come up here and get on base 40% of the time with his skill set.

Dusty takes way too much crap from this fanbase. The team has won 90 plus games 3 of the last 4 years. That is not common in baseball, especially with a team of sub .260 hitters. What I'd like to see in the offseason is for Cozart and Frazier to really work on their hitting because they are here to stay for the short future at least. If we don't sign Choo, we need to add another bat to this line-up, a proven on-base guy. Ludwick's situation is what it is, he can't be moved, but if they could find a relatively cheap option at left with some proven abilities then I would be happy. What I hate seeing is us bringing in lifetime .240 hitters and I hate that our bench is so weak. A better bench would go a long-way if nothing else than to push the starters some. I do want to see Hamilton on this roster next year but not as a starter. If he earns the job at some point then more power to him. And hopefully Votto changes his approach at the plate next year and starts swinging at some of those pitches just out of the strike zone instead of taking walks so much when runners are on and/or in scoring postion. I'm all for walks, but when you're as talented a hitter as he is you can't give away opportunities to drive in runs.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:14 PM   #5
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And hopefully Votto changes his approach at the plate next year and starts swinging at some of those pitches just out of the strike zone instead of taking walks so much when runners are on and/or in scoring postion. I'm all for walks, but when you're as talented a hitter as he is you can't give away opportunities to drive in runs.
agreed. i'm hoping this little challenge he set up for himself has been fulfilled. we get it Votto, you have a good eye and are patient at the plate. 73 RBIs isn't gonna cut it. if everyone on the team had that approach, it would be beautiful, but they don't, so it's not.

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What I hate seeing is us bringing in lifetime .240 hitters and I hate that our bench is so weak. A better bench would go a long-way if nothing else than to push the starters some.
I slightly disagree here. As hard as it might be to believe, Reds have had a top 3 bench in MLB last 3 years, in terms of BA. And as far as gloves go, we'd be hard-pressed to find a more solid glove off the bench than Jack Hannahan.

Reds need to replace the hitting coach. Simple as that. This roster is too talented to consistently have a sub .260 BA, sub .250 this year. Brook Jacoby was an overall average hitter throughout his career. Not a single silver slugger to his name. IMO, the Reds' hitting coach prerequisites should include a silver slugger.

How about:
Carney Lansford?? (career .290, silver slugger)
Barry Larkin (career .295, 9 Silver Slugger)? come back to Cincy, Barry.
Dante Bichette? (career .299, silver slugger) oh and look at that, he just announced he's not returning to the Rockies in 2014. hmmm....
get on the phone, Walt.

Last edited by charlie hustle; 10-02-2013 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:38 AM   #6
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agreed. i'm hoping this little challenge he set up for himself has been fulfilled. we get it Votto, you have a good eye and are patient at the plate. 73 RBIs isn't gonna cut it. if everyone on the team had that approach, it would be beautiful, but they don't, so it's not.


I slightly disagree here. As hard as it might be to believe, Reds have had a top 3 bench in MLB last 3 years, in terms of BA. And as far as gloves go, we'd be hard-pressed to find a more solid glove off the bench than Jack Hannahan.

Reds need to replace the hitting coach. Simple as that. This roster is too talented to consistently have a sub .260 BA, sub .250 this year. Brook Jacoby was an overall average hitter throughout his career. Not a single silver slugger to his name. IMO, the Reds' hitting coach prerequisites should include a silver slugger.

How about:
Carney Lansford?? (career .290, silver slugger)
Barry Larkin (career .295, 9 Silver Slugger)? come back to Cincy, Barry.
Dante Bichette? (career .299, silver slugger) oh and look at that, he just announced he's not returning to the Rockies in 2014. hmmm....
get on the phone, Walt.
Votto had a very down year..but far from bad. And yesterday looking at some fan graphs I found something that surprised me. Votto actually led the entire National League in runs created. So maybe the value of the RBI is weighted way to high for the majority of fans. Paul Goldschmidt led the national league in RBI and was still behind Votto for runs created
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:22 AM   #7
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Votto had a very down year..but far from bad. And yesterday looking at some fan graphs I found something that surprised me. Votto actually led the entire National League in runs created. So maybe the value of the RBI is weighted way to high for the majority of fans. Paul Goldschmidt led the national league in RBI and was still behind Votto for runs created
I didn't mean to imply he had a bad year. He's just capable of a MUCH better year.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:31 AM   #8
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I didn't mean to imply he had a bad year. He's just capable of a MUCH better year.
I wasnt implying you were saying he had a bad year...I was kind of just saying in general yea he had a down year..but it was still far from bad. I guess I didnt word it properly. A lot of people claim he had an awful year by only looking at HR and RBI
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:32 PM   #9
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The thing with Votto is it wasn't that he had a good year or bad year. The question is did he maximize his abilities to best help the team? Joey had a good year. He set the Reds all-time record for times on base. That's not a stat you can downplay no matter how you try. But the fact of the matter is Votto doesn't do as good a job at being aggressive at the plate when guys are on base. For the better part of the year Phillips and Bruce did an outstanding job at driving in runs and Votto and Choo got on base alot to create those scoring opportunities. He did however give away alot of opportunities to drive runs in himself by drawing walks when he could've swung outside the strikezone to get hits. He just needs to be more of aware of situations where the team needs his talent at swinging the bat to swing the bat. He's the best hitter on the team by far. Skillwise you might could argue he's the best hitter in baseball period. I would probably put Cabrera ahead of him at least, but that doesn't matter. Point is your best hitter needs to be swinging the bat. I think Votto will be fine. He takes his craft very seriously and I think will hear the criticism and make adjustments.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:33 AM   #10
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Fox 19 news this morning just reported Dusty Baker is done with the Reds. Announcement coming this afternoon.
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