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Old 06-04-2012, 09:04 PM   #1001
SJUBall
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Originally Posted by champ009kd View Post
Valid points NYC baller but you have to remember, we're talking about the recruitment of 17-18 year olds. The last time St. Johns was a perennial NCAA tourney team these recruits were learning how to write their names in cursive. College Basketball is very much a "what have you done for me lately" sport, and St Johns hasn't done anything lately. These kids don't remember Ron Artest (in college), jerseys sponsored by Jordan brand, and wouldn't be able to pick Coach Carnesecca out of a line-up with Mr. Rogers and Pierre Escargot.
SJU fan here. Been reading a bit and don't intend to flame, but want to chime in. Cincy has had one or two solid seasons under Cronin, but let's be straight, Cincinnatti is nowhere near a powerhouse program. SJU finished the regular season 3rd the year before last, ahead of Cincinnati. Last year was a big rebuild and like Mick's first at Cincy. Mick has a losing Big East record in his tenure. This is not a perennial powerhouse Cincy team here.

I certainly like where Cincinnatti is going and what Mick has done over the last 2 seasons. That said, Cincy fans in no shape to look down on SJU. One fan mentions how Cincy bested us last year but fails to mention that we split games last year with SJU starting 5 freshmen and only 6 scholarship players on the roster.

I certainly find the SJU is cheating comments hysterical. Lavin has not been pegged by the NCAA for anything. One prominent AAU guy last year was quoted as saying something to the effect that Lavin might be the single best in-person recruiter in the country and that nobody is better selling a program when in a kid's living room. Take it with a grain of salt if you like, but Lavin will be a contender for as long as he's at SJU.

Cincy fans keep touting tht Cincy is a pre-season top 25 team, but pre-season rankings don't mean much. Most ranking services have SJU ranked somewhere between 12-16th in the league pre-season. Those guys probably don't know that we will have w full roster this year and could be going 8 or 9 deep with top 60 talent.

I love the banter. Just hope Cincy fans will lay off the baseless cheating innuendo which is a cheap excuse when a recruit chooses to head elsewhere. You won't see much of it from SJU fans.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:43 PM   #1002
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It's Cincinnati, one t. Comparing last year's SJU team to the team Mick took over is comical. Go look up who we had on the court. Before Huggins was ousted we went to the tourney 14 straight years. I think we have been pretty solid before and after the Huggins era. Mick increased the win total every year for like 6 years.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #1003
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I'm not a fan of the cheating nonsense either without any proof. Wherever this kid lands he'll be a great defensive presence.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:54 PM   #1004
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Originally Posted by SJUBall View Post
SJU fan here. Been reading a bit and don't intend to flame, but want to chime in. Cincy has had one or two solid seasons under Cronin, but let's be straight, Cincinnatti is nowhere near a powerhouse program. SJU finished the regular season 3rd the year before last, ahead of Cincinnati. Last year was a big rebuild and like Mick's first at Cincy. Mick has a losing Big East record in his tenure. This is not a perennial powerhouse Cincy team here.

I certainly like where Cincinnatti is going and what Mick has done over the last 2 seasons. That said, Cincy fans in no shape to look down on SJU. One fan mentions how Cincy bested us last year but fails to mention that we split games last year with SJU starting 5 freshmen and only 6 scholarship players on the roster.

Cincy fans keep touting tht Cincy is a pre-season top 25 team, but pre-season rankings don't mean much. Most ranking services have SJU ranked somewhere between 12-16th in the league pre-season. Those guys probably don't know that we will have w full roster this year and could be going 8 or 9 deep with top 60 talent.
I don't know where to start with this. "I don't intend to flame, but let me flame anyway." UC isn't a perennial powerhouse, but SJU is because they finished 3rd one year? You only had 6 scholarship guys last year? Don't recruit multiple kids who won't qualify. Boo-hoo. We had 1 scholarship player when Mick took over. We had to find below average JUCOs just to fill the roster.

What exactly has St. John's done lately? In the last 10 years, you have had 4 winnings seasons. And one was 16-15 and the other 17-16. Only been to the tournament 1 year and lost the first game.

UC has had a winning season 8 out of the last 10 years with 5 NCAA tournament appearances. Here's some other fun facts:

1. UC was one of three or four schools to improve their win total the last 5 years before tying their total this year (11, 13, 18, 19, 26, 26).

2. UC has had back to back 26 win seasons. I know this can be debated but we probably could have at least went to the sweet 16 two years ago if we didn't have to play a Big East team (UCONN and Kemba) in the third round of the tournament.

3. You make it sound like being preseason top 25 is a bad thing. Obviously, some teams ranked before the season don't have good years, but I'd obviously rather be ranked than not. It's not a bad thing to be able to tell recruits you are a top 25 team.

4. If preseason rankings don't matter to you, why do recruiting rankings matter, since you say you will have all "top 60" talent? Look at UC's roster from last year:

Yancy Gates - 5 star (#22)
Cashmere Wright - 4 star (#82)
Shaq Thomas - 4 star (#81) ----- Sat out last year
Jermaine Sanders - 3 star (#131)
Dion Dixon - 3 star unranked
Sean Kilpatrick - 3 star unranked
JaQuon Parker - 3 star unranked
Justin Jackson - 3 star unranked
Kelvin Gaines- 3 star unranked
Cheikh Mbodj - 3 star unranked (JUCO)
Ge'lawn Guyn - 3 star unranked
Jeremiah Davis - 3 star unranked
Octavious Ellis - 3 star unranked

UC had 3 guys who played last year that finished in the Rivals top 150. Just because you have a team full of top 60 talent doesn't mean you will win. Sure sometimes it helps but you also won't be the only team with 8-9 guys rated in the top 60.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:25 PM   #1005
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I wasn't flaming here. Just saying that UC under Cronin has been good, but not a juggernaut. Only last 2 seasons were above 20 wins. As i said, i like where Cronin is taking the team. SJU fans know well about Cincy's history. SJU hired some real losers during the Huggins era. Huge mistakes were made. Just don't pretend that SJU has no place at this table, and if we land Obekpa it is because we cheated. It has no place.

Rankings of recruits is a whole different world from pre season big easy rankings. Lavin's team last season was left with 1 returning scholarship player and a poor one at that. My point about those rankings us that they're usually quite inaccurate. I think Cincy will be good, but it might be a big struggle to replace Gates.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:49 PM   #1006
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Originally Posted by SJUBall View Post

Rankings of recruits is a whole different world from pre season big easy rankings. Lavin's team last season was left with 1 returning scholarship player and a poor one at that. My point about those rankings us that they're usually quite inaccurate. I think Cincy will be good, but it might be a big struggle to replace Gates.
What rankings are you even talking about? You say most ranking services have St. John's 12-16th for next year. What services even have next year's rankings out yet? People don't even know what teams' full rosters will look like.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:15 PM   #1007
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Hmm.. Norvell Pelle, Amir Garrett etc. don't qualify without the "Learning Disabled" tag so they can take summer courses and get eligible. Should I continue with the third player and Jakarr $amp$on?

It's not about Obekpa. It's about the whole SJU program under Lavin.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:47 PM   #1008
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Originally Posted by JordanW View Post
It's Cincinnati, one t. Comparing last year's SJU team to the team Mick took over is comical. Go look up who we had on the court. Before Huggins was ousted we went to the tourney 14 straight years. I think we have been pretty solid before and after the Huggins era. Mick increased the win total every year for like 6 years.
Football player, Hurricane Katrina victim, and a bunch of hardworking scrubs.

SJU fan didn't actually see that team. It is nothing short of astounding the turnaround this program has taken from 1999 through 2005 and back again to 2011.

And I'm gonna go on a limb and say he was in swaddling clothes in the 90's.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:50 AM   #1009
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Football player, Hurricane Katrina victim, and a bunch of hardworking scrubs.

SJU fan didn't actually see that team. It is nothing short of astounding the turnaround this program has taken from 1999 through 2005 and back again to 2011.

And I'm gonna go on a limb and say he was in swaddling clothes in the 90's.
I'm not going to fight you on our team's turnaround, but saying we are "back again" to the 1999-ish teams is nuts. In 1999-00, we were the #1 team in the nation 12 of the 18 weeks of the regular season. Our Sweet 16 appearance was nice and all, but we've got a ways to go. Set the bar high.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:41 AM   #1010
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I'm not going to fight you on our team's turnaround, but saying we are "back again" to the 1999-ish teams is nuts. In 1999-00, we were the #1 team in the nation 12 of the 18 weeks of the regular season. Our Sweet 16 appearance was nice and all, but we've got a ways to go. Set the bar high.
Rankings aside this team has peformed to the level of the 90's teams the past 2 seasons in the NCAA tournament. Second round with a sweet 16 or better thrown in once in a while. 52 wins in two seasons in a much tougher conference than the 90's teams played in. Let's be real here.
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