BearcatTalk.com

BearcatTalk.com (https://www.bearcattalk.com/index.php)
-   Bearcat Basketball (https://www.bearcattalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   2021-22 Roster (https://www.bearcattalk.com/showthread.php?t=12526)

waterhead 03-01-2021 11:53 AM

2021-22 Roster
 
An extremely weird year. A lot of speculation about how many open spots we will have for recruits. The short answer is a lot. Hopefully it's not too many more than that. Damn near the entire roster has been speculated about.

Some almost sure outs...

Williams
Harvey
Rap

Reason to think...

Vogt
Dou
Gabe (and if Gabe maybe Mason)
DD
Tari
Davenport (because apparently one guy heard something)

Leaving us with the no speculation heard so far crowd...

Mikey
MAW
Lakhin

The max is 9 here with no transfers leaving 4 spots (actually 5 if Vogt doesn't count against). Seems like Dou leaving rumors could make some sense. Who knows on the opt outs Gabe and DD but seems DD likely to come back. I would hope Gabe seeing his twin getting some good run will bring him back.

Tari has questionable body language at times and shows a lot of frustration but I hope he sees the potential at the 4. Listening to JD I would count him in.

Hoping to see at least this

Lakhin
Tari
Davenport
Gabe
Mason
MAW
DD
Mikey

Over-Under at 8 roster spots filled give or take 2?

waterhead 03-01-2021 12:10 PM

The crazy thing here is that after only 2 years we could see every single Cronin hold over gone. Keith and Dou are all that is left. I can't see any chance of Williams coming back and the odds for Dou are probably less than 50% (from rumors). That is an insane roster turnover.

Add to that Sorolla, Rap and Harvey also abandoned ship. That will be 11 Cronin players out and 3 Brannen players totaling 1 more than a full roster turnover in 2 years. And that is only if no more Brannen players leave early.

For program sake, CJB sake, and all of our mental health I am hoping the turnover trend stops here.

Queens_NYC 03-01-2021 12:44 PM

I'd probably take the push at 8 returnees, but if I'm forced to take a harder stance, I'd probably take the under at 7.

DD
Mikey
JD
Mason
MAW

all seem very likely to return from my perspective

Tari
Lahkin
Gabe

I think one of these 3 will probably end up closer to home next season.

I can't see a good reason for any of the other 5 to return.

skyblade 03-01-2021 12:50 PM

I think there is a 75+% one of vogt/diarra return. Definitely not both. Vogt has the same pro prospects as he did last year and he came back last year. If vogt doesn't come back and we don't get an instant impact transfer- which I would bet we don't - diarra would be starter by default and that would probably bring him back.

JD was Harvey's close friend/workout buddy this summer, that's where the rumor comes from. Not that it necessarily means anything.

I give 50+% chance at least one of Eason, Gabe or a surprise transfer leaves.

Queens_NYC 03-01-2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblade (Post 212296)
I think there is a 75+% one of vogt/diarra return. Definitely not both. Vogt has the same pro prospects as he did last year and he came back last year. If vogt doesn't come back and we don't get an instant impact transfer- which I would bet we don't - diarra would be starter by default and that would probably bring him back.

JD was Harvey's close friend/workout buddy this summer, that's where the rumor comes from. Not that it necessarily means anything.

I give 50+% chance at least one of Eason, Gabe or a surprise transfer leaves.

I guess the reason why I wouldn't come back if I were Vogt is because due to his body type/size he's a great injury risk and that he likely isn't looking at a long pro career for that reason alone.

Unless the prospects of earning a living overseas (as an average college basketball player) have completely dwindled due to the pandemic or he has an aversion to leaving the county, it would make sense to try and take advantage of a professional pay day abroad at the earliest opportunity.

He obviously isn't NBA/G-League quality at the moment, so if that's his goal, I guess another year at UC would put him closer to that, but just based on how this year went for him on the court, it's hard for me to see him returning to a team that did not do anything positive for his development this past season.

TheLivingLegend 03-01-2021 01:04 PM

I did laugh that you put Rap on the list lol...

I don't see vogt returning, dou returning or harvey returning.

Would really like to see Gabe return and tari stay. I'd be okay if dou returned.

Dd will be back. Which solidifies the pg spot with him and sanders. Maw can fill in there as well.

Harvey was in prime spot to see some minutes, kind of a shame there. We need to find a wing and some bigs.

cincrulz11 03-01-2021 01:08 PM

We can still find a serviceable freshman for this class. Brannen didn't get here until April his first year and still brought in MAW, Davenport, and Harvey in that first class. There is still time for this class to be ok.

waterhead 03-01-2021 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11 (Post 212299)
We can still find a serviceable freshman for this class. Brannen didn't get here until April his first year and still brought in MAW, Davenport, and Harvey in that first class. There is still time for this class to be ok.

That is fair. With the amount of transfers we might even see a few de-commits from HS kids. It's not optimal but Brannen needs to be on his toes here. Figure out what has worked and what hasn't for transfers. I like his evaluation of HS talent so far. Hopefully the roster transition does not hold him back.

cincrulz11 03-01-2021 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhead (Post 212302)
That is fair. With the amount of transfers we might even see a few de-commits from HS kids. It's not optimal but Brannen needs to be on his toes here. Figure out what has worked and what hasn't for transfers. I like his evaluation of HS talent so far. Hopefully the roster transition does not hold him back.


I'd really like to see us get Bryson Spell. He's not a high recruit by any means but it looks like he just kept getting better and better. 6'9 dead eye shooter thats a true stretch 4. Have Eason watch tape of Obi from last season and lets get it.

cincyguy13 03-01-2021 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhead (Post 212291)
The crazy thing here is that after only 2 years we could see every single Cronin hold over gone. Keith and Dou are all that is left. I can't see any chance of Williams coming back and the odds for Dou are probably less than 50% (from rumors). That is an insane roster turnover.

Add to that Sorolla, Rap and Harvey also abandoned ship. That will be 11 Cronin players out and 3 Brannen players totaling 1 more than a full roster turnover in 2 years. And that is only if no more Brannen players leave early.

For program sake, CJB sake, and all of our mental health I am hoping the turnover trend stops here.

I’d rather all the cronin guys be gone. I love those guys but the sooner they are gone, the sooner we see if this is going work. If we still have guys he didn’t recruit, he can always fall back on that. Let’s see if this thing works or not.

cincyguy13 03-01-2021 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queens_NYC (Post 212295)
I'd probably take the push at 8 returnees, but if I'm forced to take a harder stance, I'd probably take the under at 7.

DD
Mikey
JD
Mason
MAW

all seem very likely to return from my perspective

Tari
Lahkin
Gabe

I think one of these 3 will probably end up closer to home next season.

I can't see a good reason for any of the other 5 to return.

If I had to guess right now, I would think all 8 of those guys are here next year. Gabe being the wildcard. Tari looks to be invested as of now. Talking about the future, and might be trying to help get that beachump guy next year. That could change at any point though but I would guess all of f those guys right now

cincyguy13 03-01-2021 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhead (Post 212302)
That is fair. With the amount of transfers we might even see a few de-commits from HS kids. It's not optimal but Brannen needs to be on his toes here. Figure out what has worked and what hasn't for transfers. I like his evaluation of HS talent so far. Hopefully the roster transition does not hold him back.

The fact is we have to get players this spring, so there will be commitments this spring. The worry about early commits is fair but it’s not like we will go into next year with 7-8 players. This spring is going to be wild. We’ve already been linked to some good players. We will see if we get any of them

Loser Mentality 03-01-2021 02:24 PM

Would Love to see Keith comeback, and up his worth. Of course it looks like John wants him gone from his sideline gestures when Keith has the ball. Of course Keith's whiny disposition doesn't do him any favors.

If he did stay that would be a win for the program (for a year) just my opinion.

Keith has got some shi- to work on.

Just a thought

sedziobs 03-01-2021 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loser Mentality (Post 212310)
Would Love to see Keith comeback, and up his worth. Of course it looks like John wants him gone from his sideline gestures when Keith has the ball. Of course Keith's whiny disposition doesn't do him any favors.

If he did stay that would be a win for the program (for a year) just my opinion.

Keith has got some shi- to work on.

Just a thought

I agree, Keith needs another year to work on his court vision and shooting.

In the postgame Brannen talked about how ball movement is much quicker with the young guys compared to the upperclassmen, and that's how he wants his team to play. Not much of an endorsement for Keith.

cincrulz11 03-01-2021 02:41 PM

I dont think we can really afford another year of 30.1 usage rate with a 94 ORTG out of any player.

cincyguy13 03-01-2021 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loser Mentality (Post 212310)
Would Love to see Keith comeback, and up his worth. Of course it looks like John wants him gone from his sideline gestures when Keith has the ball. Of course Keith's whiny disposition doesn't do him any favors.

If he did stay that would be a win for the program (for a year) just my opinion.

Keith has got some shi- to work on.

Just a thought

I think Keith wants to go. At some point you have to move on from school and make a living. I don’t think Keith has any desire to come back.

Keith could go overseas and make a very good living.

cincyguy13 03-01-2021 02:59 PM

If Keith came back, improves a little, best case scenario he sneaks in as a late 2nd pick. He’d be 23. I don’t think there’s any reason for he to return.

sedziobs 03-01-2021 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11 (Post 212312)
I dont think we can really afford another year of 30.1 usage rate with a 94 ORTG out of any player.

The problem is the usage, not the skills. I'd love to have Keith back in the same role he played last year. I don't think he will come back, but I don't know where he goes from here. He doesn't have any elite skills and he's a poor shooter. That's not a recipe for a pro career.

cincrulz11 03-01-2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedziobs (Post 212315)
The problem is the usage, not the skills. I'd love to have Keith back in the same role he played last year. I don't think he will come back, but I don't know where he goes from here. He doesn't have any elite skills and he's a poor shooter. That's not a recipe for a pro career.


I agree, but how do you tell a guy to come back for a 5th year, and oh btw, we need to take the ball out of your hands too.

TheLivingLegend 03-01-2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedziobs (Post 212315)
The problem is the usage, not the skills. I'd love to have Keith back in the same role he played last year. I don't think he will come back, but I don't know where he goes from here. He doesn't have any elite skills and he's a poor shooter. That's not a recipe for a pro career.


He will go overseas and make money. He ain't coming back. No clue why that would even be considered.

waterhead 03-01-2021 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedziobs (Post 212311)
I agree, Keith needs another year to work on his court vision and shooting.

In the postgame Brannen talked about how ball movement is much quicker with the young guys compared to the upperclassmen, and that's how he wants his team to play. Not much of an endorsement for Keith.

I think this year would have been the year to make those improvements considering he tested the market. If it didn't happen this year I am not sure he will see it happen next.

sedziobs 03-01-2021 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLivingLegend (Post 212317)
He will go overseas and make money. He ain't coming back. No clue why that would even be considered.

Overseas leagues that pay well have good players. Kilpatrick right now has a bench role for a team in the Canary Islands, which probably does pay ok being in the top tier Spanish league. Shaq Thomas (a decent comp for Keith) is riding the bench in Finland. I don't know what that pays, but a college scholarship might offer a better living.

It's going to be tough for a guard that can't shoot to break into any decent league. I think he might be better off jump starting his pro career if he learns to shoot first. I don't think it will happen, but that would be the rationale.

cincyguy13 03-01-2021 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedziobs (Post 212321)
Overseas leagues that pay well have good players. Kilpatrick right now has a bench role for a team in the Canary Islands, which probably does pay ok being in the top tier Spanish league. Shaq Thomas (a decent comp for Keith) is riding the bench in Finland. I don't know what that pays, but a college scholarship might offer a better living.

It's going to be tough for a guard that can't shoot to break into any decent league. I think he might be better off jump starting his pro career if he learns to shoot first. I don't think it will happen, but that would be the rationale.

Sk is 31 years old. Shaq thomas was never good. Just curious what you think an extra in college is going to do for Keith. He can improve just as much, if not more, making it his job. What’s the best case scenario if he comes back? It’s probably the same result. I’d take him back, just don’t see what it does for him.

sedziobs 03-01-2021 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincyguy13 (Post 212323)
Sk is 31 years old. Shaq thomas was never good. Just curious what you think an extra in college is going to do for Keith. He can improve just as much, if not more, making it his job. What’s the best case scenario if he comes back? It’s probably the same result. I’d take him back, just don’t see what it does for him.

31 would be the end of a player's prime years. SK was one of the best players we've ever had, but just 7 years into his pro career he's already been forced to the bench in Europe. My point is Europe is competitive, it's not as simple as going there and getting paid no matter how good you are.

Shaq wasn't great, but he's doing what he can. I would guess he's making 2-3 thousand a month in his 5th pro year. I hope he's happy there. People can still be happy without big money.

I don't think Keith is much better than Shaq, so I don't think his pro career will amount to much either. But he has a chance to make himself a little more valuable if he wants. Low level pro basketball is a grind with not much reward. I just wonder if some guys might prefer another year working on their game in college before going into that.

sedziobs 03-01-2021 07:42 PM

There's a reason players generally don't leave early to go play in Europe. If they're not good enough to land a spot on a top tier team, they aren't going to earn much more than the cost of living. So it's not like they're squandering a year of earning potential by staying in college.

If Keith leaves, he is leaving early. He would be choosing to go pro and forego a scholarship. That's very rare for players that don't have NBA aspirations, unless they want to live in Europe (like Rap).

TheRealMick 03-01-2021 11:39 PM

You need pay to get Keith, gabe, and Harvey back. Then add another wing or PG with a couple rim protectors

cincyguy13 03-02-2021 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedziobs (Post 212327)
There's a reason players generally don't leave early to go play in Europe. If they're not good enough to land a spot on a top tier team, they aren't going to earn much more than the cost of living. So it's not like they're squandering a year of earning potential by staying in college.

If Keith leaves, he is leaving early. He would be choosing to go pro and forego a scholarship. That's very rare for players that don't have NBA aspirations, unless they want to live in Europe (like Rap).

Completely disagree. There’s zero reason for Keith to come back. He’s good enough to make a good living in Europe or Asia. He’s way better than Shaq Thomas

IDC 03-02-2021 08:05 AM

My prediction of who will be back
Lahkin
Eason
Davenport
M Madsen
Adams Woods
Dejulius
Saunders

Questionable
G Madsen - who knows how he's dealing with things. May want to play closer to home
Vogt - I think he should move on, not sure what else there is for him to do here, but when he originally came to UC he was planning to sit one play 2 if I recall

Gone
Harvey
Keith
Diarra

I do worry about Mason, if Gabe does not return, but I think both will be back.

So with 5 open scholarships I think we'll be in good shape if we get a starting 5, backup 4, wing and project guard and leave 1 scholarship open

kskenyon4 03-02-2021 08:21 AM

Keith has a limited amount of years to make a living playing basketball, I can't see it being smart for him to spend another 1 in college. I consider him 99.9% gone.

TheLivingLegend 03-02-2021 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedziobs (Post 212327)
There's a reason players generally don't leave early to go play in Europe. If they're not good enough to land a spot on a top tier team, they aren't going to earn much more than the cost of living. So it's not like they're squandering a year of earning potential by staying in college.

If Keith leaves, he is leaving early. He would be choosing to go pro and forego a scholarship. That's very rare for players that don't have NBA aspirations, unless they want to live in Europe (like Rap).

Completely disagree. Money to be made by high level d1 guys. His atleticism alone will get him paid. Also. Father time never fails. Get your money and get out

cincyguy13 03-02-2021 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kskenyon4 (Post 212337)
Keith has a limited amount of years to make a living playing basketball, I can't see it being smart for him to spend another 1 in college. I consider him 99.9% gone.

I don’t think he has any interest in returning. He already indicated he is gone

cincyguy13 03-02-2021 08:53 AM

Vogt might return, I hope not. I think he’d be best to drop a level or see if he could make money somewhere. He could dominate at a lower level. If he was still at nku, he’d be killing it.

sedziobs 03-02-2021 10:05 AM

I'm all in favor of guys making money while they can. If it was that easy though, a bunch of players would leave before their senior year and go get paid overseas. Why wouldn't DDJ go right now? Why did Cane Broome stay? (I use them as examples because their size means they have no NBA hopes, but they are good enough to play pro - Broome is playing pro in Canada right now).

I see it like minor league baseball. Nobody goes into the minors to "get paid", even though they do earn a wage. Only the top high school players drafted in early rounds get good signing bonuses and have realistic hopes of developing in the system and reaching the majors. Everybody else goes to college and most stay 4 years because there is no earnings potential for non-roster minor leaguers or indy ball.

If Keith is good enough to get a nice contract where he can accumulate can some wealth, then he should absolutely leave, it's a no-brainer. He should have left last year. I'm not convinced he's good enough for that, especially in Europe where shooting and court awareness are more valued than athleticism. We'll see. I agree that there's almost no chance he returns. I'm sure he's confident in himself. I hope he succeeds.

cincyalum2014 03-02-2021 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedziobs (Post 212327)
There's a reason players generally don't leave early to go play in Europe. If they're not good enough to land a spot on a top tier team, they aren't going to earn much more than the cost of living. So it's not like they're squandering a year of earning potential by staying in college.

If Keith leaves, he is leaving early. He would be choosing to go pro and forego a scholarship. That's very rare for players that don't have NBA aspirations, unless they want to live in Europe (like Rap).

A lot of these kids don’t want to be in school, yes you get a scholarship but you also have to go to class and study as well as basketball , your professional clock starts as soon as you enter college and the older you get the less value you have, his skills won’t just magically improve In one year where it will land him in the nba, he is going overseas regardless... from a professional stand point there is no reason for him to come back

itsamemario 03-02-2021 02:24 PM

Good career keith. Thank you for what youve done.

But no thanks on keith coming back.

justinhub2003 03-02-2021 05:36 PM

I’d rather have Keith then Vogt come back.

But ideally both leave AND are replaced with bettt more productive and efficient players

TheLivingLegend 03-02-2021 06:27 PM

Video of lakhin knocking down corner threes on the tweeter machine. Interesting.

justinhub2003 03-02-2021 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLivingLegend (Post 212346)
Video of lakhin knocking down corner threes on the tweeter machine. Interesting.

Lots of videos of Dou and Trevor Moore bustin 3’s in an empty gym too. Hopefully he can make em when the lights go on

Lefty 03-02-2021 09:23 PM

Have seen some musings about possible recruits
on a couple of the threads.
Where is this info available ?
I look via cbssports & espn and google which
leads me to Rivals, I think. But I haven’t been
able to find any info.
Thanks !

cincyguy13 03-03-2021 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinhub2003 (Post 212347)
Lots of videos of Dou and Trevor Moore bustin 3’s in an empty gym too. Hopefully he can make em when the lights go on

Very true. I still don’t know if Trevor was an actual good shooter in practice or it was hype. He was a terrible shooter in game.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.