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Old 02-19-2021, 12:01 PM   #331
sedziobs
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Defense is harder to quantify, but his block + steal rate is second lowest on the team after Mason. That also goes into PER. To me, the rebounding is the worst part of this given his position on the wing. Wings should be providing something in terms of rebounding.

So terrible rebounding, assist, and defense statistics. If you adjust for the small sample 46% 3 pt shooting, it's a pretty bad statistical profile.
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Old 02-19-2021, 12:22 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queens_NYC View Post
Chad stated that Harvey had the worst "offensive and defensive leverage" rating on the team which he described as an advanced +/-.
A quick search for this term brought up this quote from Nate Oats just a couple weeks ago:

The analytics guy sent us some leverage numbers, offensive and defensive, and Keon is one of the highest leverage guys on the team. Both sides of the ball. We are going to give him more minutes.

si.com/college/alabama/bamacentral/nate-oats-on-keon-ellis

Seems to be something other teams are using too.
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Old 02-19-2021, 12:54 PM   #333
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Use whatever data analytics people want... At some point the eye test still needs to hold merit. Eye test tells me Harvey is inconsistent but has ability.
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Old 02-19-2021, 01:38 PM   #334
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Yea. In one breath people are saying we should hold out judgement for Mason in the same are judging a Top 50 recruit who had damn severe ankle surgery and didn’t play for a whole season before coming to UC, missed the offseason as he was still recovering and then in this off season he also missed most of the summer from injury.

Harvey has more scoring potential than anyone else on this team. He likely needed until his JR to show they off his skills.

But the reality is... Covid has been a pain in the ass for unpaid college athletes. It’s a lot to deal with and sacrifice. But if that sacrifice isn’t bearing fruit the way you want it to on the court, then I can empathize with wanting a fresh start, maybe closer to home.
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Old 02-19-2021, 01:46 PM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
Defense is harder to quantify, but his block + steal rate is second lowest on the team after Mason. That also goes into PER. To me, the rebounding is the worst part of this given his position on the wing. Wings should be providing something in terms of rebounding.

So terrible rebounding, assist, and defense statistics. If you adjust for the small sample 46% 3 pt shooting, it's a pretty bad statistical profile.


Yeah, I've glossed over those things with Harvey because I really wanted him to play more and thought he had great potential.

But every time I would look at his rebound rate I would get sad because theres really no reason for it to be that low.
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Old 02-19-2021, 02:09 PM   #336
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Harvey has more scoring potential than anyone else on this team. He likely needed until his JR to show they off his skills.
I agree with this, and I've said I thought he would become our best player. I definitely wouldn't want him forced out (or anyone else).

I was surprised that he would have bad advanced stats this year, but it makes sense when you dig a little. The only things he's done well statistically are limit turnovers and shoot the three. That looks good for ORtg. The things he's not done well at (rebounding, assists, steals) show up in PER and point to a lack of effort. But he has tons of potential.
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Old 02-19-2021, 02:15 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
I agree with this, and I've said I thought he would become our best player. I definitely wouldn't want him forced out (or anyone else).

I was surprised that he would have bad advanced stats this year, but it makes sense when you dig a little. The only things he's done well statistically are limit turnovers and shoot the three. That looks good for ORtg. The things he's not done well at (rebounding, assists, steals) show up in PER and point to a lack of effort. But he has tons of potential.
I think this is how everyone feels. We all want the guy to stay, especially in our position. I think Harvey could be really good but if you’re looking for a reason he wasn’t playing more than we thought he should, this would explain some of it. It still looks bad for brannen that he keeps losing guys, but it’s a little more understandable. The disconnect between the two. Brannen is probably telling him to do these things and he probably isn’t. There is no reason he doesn’t have more assist. He’s a great passer
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Old 02-19-2021, 02:26 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by cincyguy13 View Post
I think this is how everyone feels. We all want the guy to stay, especially in our position. I think Harvey could be really good but if you’re looking for a reason he wasn’t playing more than we thought he should, this would explain some of it. It still looks bad for brannen that he keeps losing guys, but it’s a little more understandable. The disconnect between the two. Brannen is probably telling him to do these things and he probably isn’t. There is no reason he doesn’t have more assist. He’s a great passer
I think the low assist rate comes from he didn't really try to do anything on offense. He'd shoot the wide open 3, or just pass it back out 30 feet from the rim. it wasn't from a selfish standpoint.


actually the more i write and think about it, i guess he was kind of going through the motions out there. unless it was transition, he was great in transition.
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Old 02-19-2021, 02:34 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by cincrulz11 View Post
I think the low assist rate comes from he didn't really try to do anything on offense. He'd shoot the wide open 3, or just pass it back out 30 feet from the rim. it wasn't from a selfish standpoint.


actually the more i write and think about it, i guess he was kind of going through the motions out there. unless it was transition, he was great in transition.
Yeah, if he was selfish or not focused he would have turnovers and fouls. I think he just wasn't all that engaged and wasn't giving max effort. It's kind of the opposite of Keith or Tari, who have great effort but are lacking in focus.
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Old 02-19-2021, 02:42 PM   #340
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Yeah, if he was selfish or not focused he would have turnovers and fouls. I think he just wasn't all that engaged and wasn't giving max effort. It's kind of the opposite of Keith or Tari, who have great effort but are lacking in focus.
I thought he was a little selfish but I liked it. I thought the team needed that, but I’m also not the coach. He could have been telling him something different for months and Harvey wasn’t listening. I have no idea. I wished they could have figured it out though
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