Xavier

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Diarra battles far more than Vogt for tough rebounds. If you aren't seeing that, you aren't watching the games.

vogt pins his guy down a lot and scott's rebounding rates have gone through the roof.


last year we were 224 in the country in preventing offensive rebounds at 29.4%. this year we are 86 at 25.6%.


our rebounding on defense has greatly improved despite losing the all mighty brooks and having guards that aren't rebounding much.

[cincyalum2014]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Diarra battles far more than Vogt for tough rebounds. If you aren't seeing that, you aren't watching the games.

obviously you are the one not watching... everyone see's it except you... this team is not any better if you swapped Vogt's minutes and gave them to Diarra, in fact we would be worse. I don't care what the analytics say, Diarra fumbles around out there getting yelled at by his own teammates because he is so lost and out of position. I am not saying Vogt is amazing because he is not... But he has exceeded pretty much everyone's expectations on how we thought he would be. I don't even want to know where this team is right now if Vogt had to sit this year.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by cincyalum2014

obviously you are the one not watching... everyone see's it except you... this team is not any better if you swapped Vogt's minutes and gave them to Diarra, in fact we would be worse. I don't care what the analytics say, Diarra fumbles around out there getting yelled at by his own teammates because he is so lost and out of position. I am not saying Vogt is amazing because he is not... But he has exceeded pretty much everyone's expectations on how we thought he would be. I don't even want to know where this team is right now if Vogt had to sit this year.

i mean analytic wise he's trying to take a stat, one that is questionable to begin with and doesn't really measure an individual exclusively, and say a guy playing 20% of the minutes would put up the same stats if he played 80% of the minutes.



its just not really how it works.

[TheLivingLegend]

Id be okay shifting minutes to Mamadou for tre Scott....

But no way for vogt.

[cincyguy13]

The Vogt hate from sky blade is getting weirder. Saying brooks was better, I at least get that, but saying Diarra is better is like saying kelvin Gaines was better than Gary clark.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

vogt pins his guy down a lot and scott's rebounding rates have gone through the roof.


last year we were 224 in the country in preventing offensive rebounds at 29.4%. this year we are 86 at 25.6%.


our rebounding on defense has greatly improved despite losing the all mighty brooks and having guards that aren't rebounding much.

Last year we played a zone defense. Zones are generally more difficult to rebound from (and require the guards to rebound more). This year we play almost exclusively man-to-man.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

The Vogt hate from sky blade is getting weirder. Saying brooks was better, I at least get that, but saying Diarra is better is like saying kelvin Gaines was better than Gary clark.

I haven't said that Diarra is better overall - just that he has far more potential. But Diarra is clearly better defensively and at rebounding. I think they should be used situationally. If Vogt is playing well on offense or dominates the other team with his size, then he should play.

But if Vogt is getting abused on defense (like he was against Xavier), then Diarra should play.

[Cpaw]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

The Vogt hate from sky blade is getting weirder. Saying brooks was better, I at least get that, but saying Diarra is better is like saying kelvin Gaines was better than Gary clark.

This made my day.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincyalum2014

obviously you are the one not watching... everyone see's it except you... this team is not any better if you swapped Vogt's minutes and gave them to Diarra, in fact we would be worse. I don't care what the analytics say, Diarra fumbles around out there getting yelled at by his own teammates because he is so lost and out of position. I am not saying Vogt is amazing because he is not... But he has exceeded pretty much everyone's expectations on how we thought he would be. I don't even want to know where this team is right now if Vogt had to sit this year.

I'm not the only one who sees that Vogt is a bad defensive player and very bad at help defense. Heck even Brannen acknowledged it it the press conference. In the post game press conference, in reference to Jones he said "in the second half, he kicked our tail".

Vogt is the worst starting center on the defensive end that UC has had in as far back as I can recall. I understand that people want offense too, but the center position impacts the game more than any other position on the defensive end and rebounding.

It's very hard to be a very good defense when your starting center is not a good defender. We managed it a few years ago with Kyle Washington, but Washington was better defensively than Vogt, was taken out when he didn't matchup well with the other team and had Gary Clark next to him.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Last year we played a zone defense. Zones are generally more difficult to rebound from (and require the guards to rebound more). This year we play almost exclusively man-to-man.

yeah and your guy that you say can't rebound does a great job of not letting his man get offensive rebounds. if you play man and you can't rebound, you give up a lot of offensive rebounds.



micks defense really isn't a zone either. its a weird hybrid, but its true it was absolutely terrible at preventing offensive rebounds.