UC Shooting Woes

TheLivingLegend · 02-07-2011, 11:43 AM

Huggins team always seemed to have a guy who could shoot he ball, surrounded by alot of athletes.

Mick seems to not have this. Better find one. Our shooting is so bad.

bearcat jeff · 02-07-2011, 12:32 PM

Yeah , I was remembering back on some over the weekend. Burton, Williams, Durden, Van Excel, Logan, Bobbitt, and Herb Jones. Those guys had one thing in common. They might miss 5-6 in a row, but you knew they might hit the next 3-4 in a row. Burton led the team in 2 point shooting 3 years in a row.

On a side note: Would it surprise anyone to know Kenyon Martin only led the team in rebounding once?

MDW79 · 02-07-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcat jeff

Yeah , I was remembering back on some over the weekend. Burton, Williams, Durden, Van Excel, Logan, Bobbitt, and Herb Jones. Those guys had one thing in common. They might miss 5-6 in a row, but you knew they might hit the next 3-4 in a row. Burton led the team in 2 point shooting 3 years in a row.

On a side note: Would it surprise anyone to know Kenyon Martin only led the team in rebounding once?

I got to get my boy D'Juan Baker some props by adding him here.

TheLongHaul · 02-07-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcat jeff

Yeah , I was remembering back on some over the weekend. Burton, Williams, Durden, Van Excel, Logan, Bobbitt, and Herb Jones. Those guys had one thing in common. They might miss 5-6 in a row, but you knew they might hit the next 3-4 in a row. Burton led the team in 2 point shooting 3 years in a row.

On a side note: Would it surprise anyone to know Kenyon Martin only led the team in rebounding once?

Not at all. Martin played along side with some serious rebounders.

JasonS · 02-07-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcat jeff

Yeah , I was remembering back on some over the weekend. Burton, Williams, Durden, Van Excel, Logan, Bobbitt, and Herb Jones. Those guys had one thing in common. They might miss 5-6 in a row, but you knew they might hit the next 3-4 in a row. Burton led the team in 2 point shooting 3 years in a row.

On a side note: Would it surprise anyone to know Kenyon Martin only led the team in rebounding once?

Also, don't forget that Kenyon played a lot in the high post and the offense ran through him. It seemed like a big part of his offensive rebounds were put back dunks but he spent a lot of time around the free throw line, especially his senior year. Also, like someone else said, he had some big time rebounders around him too. Those teams were some of the best rebounding teams I have ever seen. They went and got everything.

bearcat jeff · 02-07-2011, 06:10 PM

Mick teaches team rebounding.

ervins84 · 02-08-2011, 01:10 AM

first about the packers thing...i mean gbay was favored @chicago and favored in the Sbowl, and was a virtual coinflip in the atlanta game. They werent exactly your regular run of the mill 6 seed underdog. Add in having one of the top 3-4 players at the most important position in sports playing at a high level, and yeah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swg

Kinda what I've been pointing to for over a year now...recruit shooters, not just athletes.

i dont even think UC really has a lot of elite athletes on its team.

Pure athleticism in comparison to an average BEast team:
Wilks elite athleticism but too slight
Jackson Best athlete by far but is only a Freshman
cash average
dixon average to below average
kilpatrick average
thomas below average
Gates above average when he tries
Bishop average to below average
davis below average
Parker below average
Mclain below average

ervins84 · 02-08-2011, 01:13 AM

kenpom
Adj Off:
rank in entire country

Pitt 2
Marquette 7
Gtown 9
ND 10
Nova 12
Cuse 19
W Va 27
UConn 29
Ville 45
Providence 53
Cincy 75
St Johns 76
Rutgers 92
s Fla 154
Seton Hall 179
Depaul 209

Still, obv not a great offensive team, but again, pointing to UC being 14th in ppg is so dumb, when cincys 243 amongst Div 1 teams in tempo (possessions per game)

Were always gonna be lower than most in the ppg if we play at that pace

FG shooting % is a pretty irrelevant stat. Eff FG% is what matters, but cincy is not good in that category either. only ranking 203rd in all of div 1, but not as bad as their ranking in regular fg %.
The only things they do well on offense is not the turn the ball over and rebound a very high % of their misses (as much as people on here are upset about the rebounding), Cincy ranks 15th in the country in off reb %.

WHat should be encouraging to fans, and also id rather not dwell on the negative, is this cincinnati team is NOT an elite talented team. It also does NOT have more than 1, maybe 2 "elite" athletes and one is a freshman and the other is a fouling machine senior thats too skinny. Yet, their defense is ranked #10 in all of the country in defensive efficiency and #1 in the BEast. THis is points allowed per possession. If mick can get guys like this to guard in this manner, im optimistic about the future with athletes like shaq thomas + kelvin gaines + justin jackson on the floor.
In order with national rankings. Also, this metric is adjustfor opponents, just as offense was above, so strength of schedule is pretty much irrelevant to this stat.

cincy 10th
seton hall 15th
ville 17
cuse 21
uconn 24
nova 26
pitt 29
w va 32
stjohns 45
gtown 55
ndame 64
rutgers 69
marquette 80
s fla 89
providence 94
depaul 213

TLDR
CLIFFS:
elite defensively with average to below average talent levels and athleticism
poor offensively, but not as bad as lance makes it out to be

bearcat jeff · 02-08-2011, 06:19 AM

The only things they do well on offense is not the turn the ball over and rebound a very high % of their misses (as much as people on here are upset about the rebounding), Cincy ranks 15th in the country in off reb %.

They may rebound a high rate of misses, but conversion of those misses is another issue.

TheLongHaul · 02-08-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ervins84

first about the packers thing...i mean gbay was favored @chicago and favored in the Sbowl, and was a virtual coinflip in the atlanta game. They werent exactly your regular run of the mill 6 seed underdog. Add in having one of the top 3-4 players at the most important position in sports playing at a high level, and yeah.

i dont even think UC really has a lot of elite athletes on its team.

Pure athleticism in comparison to an average BEast team:
Wilks elite athleticism but too slight
Jackson Best athlete by far but is only a Freshman
cash average
dixon average to below average
kilpatrick average
thomas below average
Gates above average when he tries
Bishop average to below average
davis below average
Parker below average
Mclain below average

I've been saying this for a while. I'm not sure why everyone thinks UC is super athletic. In reality they only have one or two really good athletes. Wilks is a great athlete but has too many other deficiencies. Dixon can jump when jumping off two feet which is hard to do too often in basketball. I think Cash is pretty athletic but that is about it for the team. Bishop is way below most other SF's in terms of athleticism.

02-07-2011, 11:43 AM	#11
TheLivingLegend Epic Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Nati Posts: 3,837	Huggins team always seemed to have a guy who could shoot he ball, surrounded by alot of athletes. Mick seems to not have this. Better find one. Our shooting is so bad. __________________ ""eating dirt" is constructive criticism to becoming a better person."

02-07-2011, 12:32 PM	#12
bearcat jeff Hoops Moderator Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,502	Yeah , I was remembering back on some over the weekend. Burton, Williams, Durden, Van Excel, Logan, Bobbitt, and Herb Jones. Those guys had one thing in common. They might miss 5-6 in a row, but you knew they might hit the next 3-4 in a row. Burton led the team in 2 point shooting 3 years in a row. On a side note: Would it surprise anyone to know Kenyon Martin only led the team in rebounding once? Last edited by bearcat jeff; 02-07-2011 at 12:43 PM.

02-08-2011, 01:13 AM	#18
ervins84 Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 794	kenpom Adj Off: rank in entire country Pitt 2 Marquette 7 Gtown 9 ND 10 Nova 12 Cuse 19 W Va 27 UConn 29 Ville 45 Providence 53 Cincy 75 St Johns 76 Rutgers 92 s Fla 154 Seton Hall 179 Depaul 209 Still, obv not a great offensive team, but again, pointing to UC being 14th in ppg is so dumb, when cincys 243 amongst Div 1 teams in tempo (possessions per game) Were always gonna be lower than most in the ppg if we play at that pace FG shooting % is a pretty irrelevant stat. Eff FG% is what matters, but cincy is not good in that category either. only ranking 203rd in all of div 1, but not as bad as their ranking in regular fg %. The only things they do well on offense is not the turn the ball over and rebound a very high % of their misses (as much as people on here are upset about the rebounding), Cincy ranks 15th in the country in off reb %. WHat should be encouraging to fans, and also id rather not dwell on the negative, is this cincinnati team is NOT an elite talented team. It also does NOT have more than 1, maybe 2 "elite" athletes and one is a freshman and the other is a fouling machine senior thats too skinny. Yet, their defense is ranked #10 in all of the country in defensive efficiency and #1 in the BEast. THis is points allowed per possession. If mick can get guys like this to guard in this manner, im optimistic about the future with athletes like shaq thomas + kelvin gaines + justin jackson on the floor. In order with national rankings. Also, this metric is adjustfor opponents, just as offense was above, so strength of schedule is pretty much irrelevant to this stat. cincy 10th seton hall 15th ville 17 cuse 21 uconn 24 nova 26 pitt 29 w va 32 stjohns 45 gtown 55 ndame 64 rutgers 69 marquette 80 s fla 89 providence 94 depaul 213 TLDR CLIFFS: elite defensively with average to below average talent levels and athleticism poor offensively, but not as bad as lance makes it out to be Last edited by ervins84; 02-08-2011 at 01:34 AM.

02-07-2011, 06:10 PM	#16
bearcat jeff Hoops Moderator Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,502	Mick teaches team rebounding.

02-08-2011, 06:19 AM	#19
bearcat jeff Hoops Moderator Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,502	The only things they do well on offense is not the turn the ball over and rebound a very high % of their misses (as much as people on here are upset about the rebounding), Cincy ranks 15th in the country in off reb %. They may rebound a high rate of misses, but conversion of those misses is another issue.