Future teams

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by cincycpaw

Yeah. If Cumberland is gone and LoJo transfers.... that would mean as Bearcat fans we went

2-4. Williams staying is huge and I think not a definite by any chance. Scott leaving was less likely but keeping him is a W.

1) Cumberland - would be an enormous L
2) LoJo - a huge L
3) Brooks - a large L
4) Curtis - a L

It Eliel is gone as well it’s a loss because of losing brooks too. Love his energy, love his hustle. Want him to stay and get better....but he’s way down in this list. Ahead of Fredericks.

If it’s all true gotta wonder what’s going on behind the doors. I am guessing the players are hearing polar opposites from Brannen compared to Cronin. Virtual 180 in style probably in just about every aspect. With Cronin these players probably all had some guarantees and Brannnen will have his own guarantees and won’t be bound by Cronins.

Or maybe it’s something entirely different but mass exodus can’t be all individual reasons. There has to be some underlying similarities.

Cronin did not recruit over his players if he could at all avoid it. His transfer rate was gold because of that. But because of that we were also stuck with the recruits either good or bad. Also seniority was at a premium here more than other places. You could probably bank on getting your shot by junior year unless you were horrid.

I am guessing Brannnen doesn’t play that way.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincycpaw

Yeah. If Cumberland is gone and LoJo transfers.... that would mean as Bearcat fans we went

2-4. Williams staying is huge and I think not a definite by any chance. Scott leaving was less likely but keeping him is a W.

1) Cumberland - would be an enormous L
2) LoJo - a huge L
3) Brooks - a large L
4) Curtis - a L

It Eliel is gone as well it’s a loss because of losing brooks too. Love his energy, love his hustle. Want him to stay and get better....but he’s way down in this list. Ahead of Fredericks.

In the short-term view I'd put Eliel near or ahead of Curtis. With Eliel/Diarra we are good enough at the center position not to worry too much over the next two years. But if Nsoseme leaves, we need to find a center who can at the least give 10-15 quality minutes per game as a backup (and that's assuming Diarra does well).

Went from being a likely top 15 - or top 25 if Cumberland left - team to looking like we will be middle of the pack in the AAC. Oh well, hope Brannen can turn it around in 2/3 years. Will get to watch a low of young guys grow and develop over the next couple years, but looks like we shouldn't expect too many wins.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by waterhead

If it’s all true gotta wonder what’s going on behind the doors. I am guessing the players are hearing polar opposites from Brannen compared to Cronin. Virtual 180 in style probably in just about every aspect. With Cronin these players probably all had some guarantees and Brannnen will have his own guarantees and won’t be bound by Cronins.

Or maybe it’s something entirely different but mass exodus can’t be all individual reasons. There has to be some underlying similarities.

Cronin did not recruit over his players if he could at all avoid it. His transfer rate was gold because of that. But because of that we were also stuck with the recruits either good or bad. Also seniority was at a premium here more than other places. You could probably bank on getting your shot by junior year unless you were horrid.

I am guessing Brannnen doesn’t play that way.

I'm wondering if the players aren't happy with Cronin leaving. If the rumors are true Cronin would have stayed if UC had offered more years. Wonder if that is true and the players feel like we could and should have kept Cronin.

Players leaving because of guarantees doesn't make much sense. LoJo was getting playing time no matter what next year regardless of guarantees, Nsoseme was going to be getting plenty of playing time as well after Brooks left and more playing time then he would have under Cronin if Brooks stayed.

Or maybe it's just kind of an avalanche. As other players and coaches leave, there are fewer relationships keeping other players here. For example, if Nsoseme leaves we might have to worry about Prince as well, since them being from same place was supposed to have helped quite a bit in Prince's recruiting.

[cincycpaw]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I'm wondering if the players aren't happy with Cronin leaving. If the rumors are true Cronin would have stayed if UC had offered more years. Wonder if that is true and the players feel like we could and should have kept Cronin.

Players leaving because of guarantees doesn't make much sense. LoJo was getting playing time no matter what next year regardless of guarantees, Nsoseme was going to be getting plenty of playing time as well after Brooks left and more playing time then he would have under Cronin if Brooks stayed.

Or maybe it's just kind of an avalanche. As other players and coaches leave, there are fewer relationships keeping other players here. For example, if Nsoseme leaves we might have to worry about Prince as well, since them being from same place was supposed to have helped quite a bit in Prince's recruiting.

Brooks set this wave in motion.

[justinhub2003]

The more I think About it, even with a dominate 2020 class (and it needs to be top 20) we are still looking at a 3-4 year rebuild.

Any one remember it feels like to miss the tourney ?


What sucks is espn is going to see how trash we are going to be and will put us on ESPN+

Can we just have some good news soon?

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I'm wondering if the players aren't happy with Cronin leaving. If the rumors are true Cronin would have stayed if UC had offered more years. Wonder if that is true and the players feel like we could and should have kept Cronin.

Players leaving because of guarantees doesn't make much sense. LoJo was getting playing time no matter what next year regardless of guarantees, Nsoseme was going to be getting plenty of playing time as well after Brooks left and more playing time then he would have under Cronin if Brooks stayed.

Or maybe it's just kind of an avalanche. As other players and coaches leave, there are fewer relationships keeping other players here. For example, if Nsoseme leaves we might have to worry about Prince as well, since them being from same place was supposed to have helped quite a bit in Prince's recruiting.

Then you worry about Keith.

I mean for all we know, he won’t have anyone on the team he is close to. His hometown team is also going through a rebuild, he could just as easy start over at St. John’s as he could here

[Bcatfollower]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

Then you worry about Keith.

I mean for all we know, he won’t have anyone on the team he is close to. His hometown team is also going through a rebuild, he could just as easy start over at St. John’s as he could here

Probably will. UC should just shut down the program now.

[UCats329]

Long time lurker, first time poster: as the great Bubbles of TPB oft said, this is ****** boys.

Hopefully the Cronin detractors are starting to understand just how tenuous the type of success UC has enjoyed over the last decade actually is. When (if) they ever get back to enjoying the same degree of success, hopefully everyone's a little more appreciative about it and doesn't stare the proverbial gift horse in the mouth again--especially if they're still stuck in the AAC or a similarly awful conference when that ultimately happens.

When people were calling for Cronin's head after the Iowa loss I cautioned them that they shouldn't take what Cronin had achieved for granted and that there wasn't necessarily a unicorn coach out there ready to just come riding in to "take UC to the next level." Based on how things have played out the last five weeks--and especially based on where things currently seem to be headed--I'm (quite sadly) being proven correct; Brannen certainly isn't the unicorn the less patient UC fans have been waiting for, and even if he turns out to be a decent coach in the long run this is going to get a lot worse (13-win seasons) before it gets better.

The sad fact of the matter is that UC occupies a very awkward niche in the college sports landscape between pure mid-major and actual power program. By that I mean this: the tools generally required to sustain high level success over the long run simply aren't there: they're not in a power 5 conference, and thus not getting good TV money (to pay McDonald's AA's and would-be NBA players to come play for them), they're not on national TV for most of their games, and they won't get a whole lot of seeding consideration come tournament time. And yet, the fans have experienced *just enough* historical success to believe in their heart of hearts that UC is basically a blueblood and should produce blueblood results (sweet sixteen or bust, baby!)

That's not really an attractive job if you're a coach (which is why a guy whose biggest accomplishment was winning the Horizon League twice got hired), and it's not really an attractive destination either if you're a 4-star player who has options--why not go play for Purdue, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, Oregon, or Texas Tech instead? They all play on national TV pretty much every game and their fans aren't ******* nuts.

It's unfortunate, but here's the reality: on top of all the above, UC has compounded their own situation by letting their biggest selling point--a coach that basically guaranteed an annual tourney appearance--to simply walk out the door. They've even further compounded it by hiring a guy who has never beaten an opponent from the P5 + 2 and has proven utterly incapable for reasons we can only speculate about of keeping a really close-knit team together, although I'm not going to beat Brannen up too hard about it because, again, in light of the above, he really probably was the best option at the end of the day (which is why UC should've held on to Cronin for dear life.)

The state of the program is thus this: their biggest asset (Cronin) is gone, a bunch of his players are gone too (with still more likely to leave), we're almost on week five and the head coach doesn't have an assistant staff in place, and there don't appear to be any recruits--certainly not any of any real significance--in the pipeline. There are about to be seven (7!) scholarships open for next year, and it's almost mid May!

Tl;dr: sorry to bust the optimists' collective bubble, but until something happens to prove otherwise, this is a legitimate dumpster fire, and UC by and large lit the match on itself. We're talking 3-4 years before UC makes the tournament again, and that's giving Brannen the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's actually competent and can turn this thing around quickly.

I don't have much else to add, but here's some practical advice to anyone who's been as pissed off about it all as I have lately: just stop giving a shit. Unlike the post-Huggins fallout this was entirely self-inflicted because the school was too incompetent or arrogant to recognize a good thing when they saw it in Cronin. They screwed up big time, and while you should certainly wish for the best because Brannen seems like a nice guy and the (remaining) players are all good kids, the University don't really deserve your material support after screwing up this bad.

Cancel your season tickets; buy/upgrade some UC football tickets instead--that team's actually worth watching and you might get to be front/center for the best season in school history. Don't bother going to the games if the team sucks; it's just going to piss you off anyway, you already tolerated a half-decade of futility, and you shouldn't be expected to sit through another five year (or longer) rebuild because Mike Bohn and the Board of Trustees was too proud/stupid to pay Cronin what he was worth. Lord knows a lot of people are going to see it that way and your tickets will be waiting for you in 5+ years when they're actually relevant again.

Anyway, that's my take and you don't have to agree. I hope I'm wrong, but this is pretty much what I hypothetically envisioned *before* Cronin even walked; hopefully we get a Monday morning surprise to ease the pain bbefore Cumberland announces he's withdrawing from the draft but still going to Europe, but I'm not holding my breath.

Everyone take your meds but don't drink too much, and go Bearcats!

[JoeRunner89]

Originally Posted by UCats329

Long time lurker, first time poster: as the great Bubbles of TPB oft said, this is ****** boys.

Hopefully the Cronin detractors are starting to understand just how tenuous the type of success UC has enjoyed over the last decade actually is. When (if) they ever get back to enjoying the same degree of success, hopefully everyone's a little more appreciative about it and doesn't stare the proverbial gift horse in the mouth again--especially if they're still stuck in the AAC or a similarly awful conference when that ultimately happens.

When people were calling for Cronin's head after the Iowa loss I cautioned them that they shouldn't take what Cronin had achieved for granted and that there wasn't necessarily a unicorn coach out there ready to just come riding in to "take UC to the next level." Based on how things have played out the last five weeks--and especially based on where things currently seem to be headed--I'm (quite sadly) being proven correct; Brannen certainly isn't the unicorn the less patient UC fans have been waiting for, and even if he turns out to be a decent coach in the long run this is going to get a lot worse (13-win seasons) before it gets better.

The sad fact of the matter is that UC occupies a very awkward niche in the college sports landscape between pure mid-major and actual power program. By that I mean this: the tools generally required to sustain high level success over the long run simply aren't there: they're not in a power 5 conference, and thus not getting good TV money (to pay McDonald's AA's and would-be NBA players to come play for them), they're not on national TV for most of their games, and they won't get a whole lot of seeding consideration come tournament time. And yet, the fans have experienced *just enough* historical success to believe in their heart of hearts that UC is basically a blueblood and should produce blueblood results (sweet sixteen or bust, baby!)

That's not really an attractive job if you're a coach (which is why a guy whose biggest accomplishment was winning the Horizon League twice got hired), and it's not really an attractive destination either if you're a 4-star player who has options--why not go play for Purdue, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, Oregon, or Texas Tech instead? They all play on national TV pretty much every game and their fans aren't ******* nuts.

It's unfortunate, but here's the reality: on top of all the above, UC has compounded their own situation by letting their biggest selling point--a coach that basically guaranteed an annual tourney appearance--to simply walk out the door. They've even further compounded it by hiring a guy who has never beaten an opponent from the P5 + 2 and has proven utterly incapable for reasons we can only speculate about of keeping a really close-knit team together, although I'm not going to beat Brannen up too hard about it because, again, in light of the above, he really probably was the best option at the end of the day (which is why UC should've held on to Cronin for dear life.)

The state of the program is thus this: their biggest asset (Cronin) is gone, a bunch of his players are gone too (with still more likely to leave), we're almost on week five and the head coach doesn't have an assistant staff in place, and there don't appear to be any recruits--certainly not any of any real significance--in the pipeline. There are about to be seven (7!) scholarships open for next year, and it's almost mid May!

Tl;dr: sorry to bust the optimists' collective bubble, but until something happens to prove otherwise, this is a legitimate dumpster fire, and UC by and large lit the match on itself. We're talking 3-4 years before UC makes the tournament again, and that's giving Brannen the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's actually competent and can turn this thing around quickly.

I don't have much else to add, but here's some practical advice to anyone who's been as pissed off about it all as I have lately: just stop giving a shit. Unlike the post-Huggins fallout this was entirely self-inflicted because the school was too incompetent or arrogant to recognize a good thing when they saw it in Cronin. They screwed up big time, and while you should certainly wish for the best because Brannen seems like a nice guy and the (remaining) players are all good kids, the University don't really deserve your material support after screwing up this bad.

Cancel your season tickets; buy/upgrade some UC football tickets instead--that team's actually worth watching and you might get to be front/center for the best season in school history. Don't bother going to the games if the team sucks; it's just going to piss you off anyway, you already tolerated a half-decade of futility, and you shouldn't be expected to sit through another five year (or longer) rebuild because Mike Bohn and the Board of Trustees was too proud/stupid to pay Cronin what he was worth. Lord knows a lot of people are going to see it that way and your tickets will be waiting for you in 5+ years when they're actually relevant again.

Anyway, that's my take and you don't have to agree. I hope I'm wrong, but this is pretty much what I hypothetically envisioned *before* Cronin even walked; hopefully we get a Monday morning surprise to ease the pain bbefore Cumberland announces he's withdrawing from the draft but still going to Europe, but I'm not holding my breath.

Everyone take your meds but don't drink too much, and go Bearcats!

My sentiments exactly

[the_one_32]

Usually I take joy in being right, but this time, I am really hating it. I did not see or hear anything about Elli leaving but as those who PMed me know, I heard about the others leaving so it didn't come as a shock to me.