Huggins Deserves Plaudits

[ralph1950]

Originally Posted by david aka the TYZ

The DUI and graduation rates (although somewhat unfair) were black eyes for Huggins, but what I never hear anyone argue is why the cupboard was so bare after he left. That senior-laden team that Kennedy coached to the NIT was his last recruits besides Downey and Bright that managed to see the floor. We all know what happened to Bright. Huggins stopped being able to get the better recruits and started reaching even farther than he had previously for guys. There were a number of guys that didn't pan out for one reason or another that caused us to have no underclassman other than Downey carrying over. Huggins was and is a great coach, but he made mistakes here and he needed to be let go. We need to let it go and get on board with Mick. If we don't like Mick it shouldn't be because of Huggins. Mick has done well for what he inherited. The question is can he get us over the hump and to the next level. It is a very fair argument that I am on the fence over and think will be answered for sure next year.

The cupboard was so bare because Huggins had put the program in APR death territory. UC was facing the loss of 3 scholarships, he was stuck finding guys with enough brains to graduate. He had to take transfers from Penn, Ryan Patzwald?, guys with Western Carolina talent, Nick Aldridge, etc.
Mick is still climbing out of the hole Huggins dug UC in.

[Thegreatone]

Huggins should be in elite 8 which would be good for the conference. If Big East gets 2 in the Elite 8 it will be good news. If they get 2 in the Final Four back to back years it would justify a lot of the hype.

[david aka the TYZ]

Originally Posted by ralph1950

The cupboard was so bare because Huggins had put the program in APR death territory. UC was facing the loss of 3 scholarships, he was stuck finding guys with enough brains to graduate. He had to take transfers from Penn, Ryan Patzwald?, guys with Western Carolina talent, Nick Aldridge, etc.
Mick is still climbing out of the hole Huggins dug UC in.

Exactly, although Aldridge is Mick's black eye to deal with.

That was my point about him leaving the cupboard bare. Everyone looks as Huggins getting a raw deal being pushed out of town. He was hurting the program and we are better for moving on. He will continue to be successful wherever he goes because he's one of the best at getting the most talent out of his players. That's why fans will never let it go, especially while sitting on the outside looking in. I think he learned his lesson from what happenend to him here and being in the Big East now he won't have to take as many chances on players to get the talent.

[ucgrad94]

Originally Posted by david aka the TYZ

Exactly, although Aldridge is Mick's black eye to deal with.

That was my point about him leaving the cupboard bare. Everyone looks as Huggins getting a raw deal being pushed out of town. He was hurting the program and we are better for moving on. He will continue to be successful wherever he goes because he's one of the best at getting the most talent out of his players. That's why fans will never let it go, especially while sitting on the outside looking in. I think he learned his lesson from what happenend to him here and being in the Big East now he won't have to take as many chances on players to get the talent.

How can you blame Huggins for this? It's not like Mick took over for Huggins right away. Let me remind you what Huggins left at UC: James White, Devan Downey, Eric Hicks, Armein Kirkland, Jihad Muhammd. To me, it doesn't look like the cupbaord was bare. It's not his fault we couldn't recruit for a year, thats just what happens when you fire a coach and leave an interim coach in place for an enitre year. I support this team and this program, I just do not understand why so called "fans" have to rip on Coach Huggins. He built this program. To say he was a black eye and left the cupboard bare is just ridiculous, and upsets me.

[anbuc88]

Originally Posted by ucgrad94

How can you blame Huggins for this? It's not like Mick took over for Huggins right away. Let me remind you what Huggins left at UC: James White, Devan Downey, Eric Hicks, Armein Kirkland, Jihad Muhammd. To me, it doesn't look like the cupbaord was bare. It's not his fault we couldn't recruit for a year, thats just what happens when you fire a coach and leave an interim coach in place for an enitre year. I support this team and this program, I just do not understand why so called "fans" have to rip on Coach Huggins. He built this program. To say he was a black eye and left the cupboard bare is just ridiculous, and upsets me.

Huggins didn't leave this at UC. If he had left for another job of his own accord, then I would agree. But he directly caused his own demise here. The administration then screwed things up by getting rid of him the way they did. This is not ripping Huggins, just stating facts. He needed to go, but the timing was miserable for us. It worked out well for Huggins, as he became a martyr, and eventually ended up at his alma mater. His assistants also ended up with jobs that they would NEVER have been candidates for, as no university wanted to touch those who had been asssociated with Huggins. The only one who hasn't landed well as of yet is UC. But I still have hope that we will and us long suffering fans will have something to celebrate in the coming years. This is despite losing tonight to a better than average UD team that also underachieved this year. remember, Cronin was also a Huggins assistant and those other 2 are doing well. It's only a matter of time until Mick reaches the potential that others saw in him.

[david aka the TYZ]

Originally Posted by ucgrad94

How can you blame Huggins for this? It's not like Mick took over for Huggins right away. Let me remind you what Huggins left at UC: James White, Devan Downey, Eric Hicks, Armein Kirkland, Jihad Muhammd. To me, it doesn't look like the cupbaord was bare. It's not his fault we couldn't recruit for a year, thats just what happens when you fire a coach and leave an interim coach in place for an enitre year. I support this team and this program, I just do not understand why so called "fans" have to rip on Coach Huggins. He built this program. To say he was a black eye and left the cupboard bare is just ridiculous, and upsets me.

My point was that he left us a handful of seniors, one freshman and a juco and a guy that got kicked off for dropping his loaded gun on campus. He had a number of recruits that should have been carryover after those seniors graduated that never made it on campus for one reason or another. Mostly because he recruited guys that couldn't become academically eligible. There should have been more than Cedric McGowen and Downey for Mick's first year. (We know what happened with Downey but you can't pin that on Huggins.) The cupboard was bare because Huggins failed to recruit guys that could arrive and stay on campus. The timing of his firing and Kennedy's lame duck status just added to the recruiting problems, but Huggins was the one who left it bare.

I tried to research some names of guys. One was Tyree Evans. Look up his rap sheet. He was supposed to come in originally as a 2004 graduate, then an 05, then Huggins tried to get him at K-State after two years of his failing to qualify. He finally landed in Maryland after juco and some jail time. If anyone can find names of his last three recruiting classes I would love to see it and reasons why they couldn't manage to see the floor.

I'm really not trying to bash Huggins. He did do a lot for this program and building it up, but lets not confuse winning basketball games with being a responsible coach. Huggins was as much a problem as anyone else in this disaster.

[ucgrad94]

Originally Posted by david aka the TYZ

My point was that he left us a handful of seniors, one freshman and a juco and a guy that got kicked off for dropping his loaded gun on campus. He had a number of recruits that should have been carryover after those seniors graduated that never made it on campus for one reason or another. Mostly because he recruited guys that couldn't become academically eligible. There should have been more than Cedric McGowen and Downey for Mick's first year. (We know what happened with Downey but you can't pin that on Huggins.) The cupboard was bare because Huggins failed to recruit guys that could arrive and stay on campus. The timing of his firing and Kennedy's lame duck status just added to the recruiting problems, but Huggins was the one who left it bare.

I tried to research some names of guys. One was Tyree Evans. Look up his rap sheet. He was supposed to come in originally as a 2004 graduate, then an 05, then Huggins tried to get him at K-State after two years of his failing to qualify. He finally landed in Maryland after juco and some jail time. If anyone can find names of his last three recruiting classes I would love to see it and reasons why they couldn't manage to see the floor.

I'm really not trying to bash Huggins. He did do a lot for this program and building it up, but lets not confuse winning basketball games with being a responsible coach. Huggins was as much a problem as anyone else in this disaster.

I understand what your point, but its hard to put back to back top recruiting classes together. Think about this, he left a bunch of seniors, the next year may have been a less than average year, but then he would have reloaded with Bill Walker and OJ Mayo. To blame the current state of the program on Huggins is wrong. You are correct about the lame duck position Kennedy was in. That was where our recruiting took a big time hit. If Kennedy would have been named the coach our recruiting would have been fine. We would have been able to recruit and bring in some good players. Am I correct? So to sum it up, it all goes back to Nancy. The firing/resigning of Huggins is one thing, but what really cost us was the lame duck position Kennedy was in.

[david aka the TYZ]

Originally Posted by ucgrad94

I understand what your point, but its hard to put back to back top recruiting classes together. Think about this, he left a bunch of seniors, the next year may have been a less than average year, but then he would have reloaded with Bill Walker and OJ Mayo. To blame the current state of the program on Huggins is wrong. You are correct about the lame duck position Kennedy was in. That was where our recruiting took a big time hit. If Kennedy would have been named the coach our recruiting would have been fine. We would have been able to recruit and bring in some good players. Am I correct? So to sum it up, it all goes back to Nancy. The firing/resigning of Huggins is one thing, but what really cost us was the lame duck position Kennedy was in.

I'm not trying to pin all the blame on Huggins. My original comment on the matter was just how no one ever brings up all the recruits from his last few years that couldn't make the court that led to the cupboard being bare. The whole situation is a mess and the blame lies in several places. Nancy's timing of it was horrible. I just don't like when people think Huggins was innocent in the whole matter and could do no wrong. The truth of the matter is if he had any freshman or sophomores carry over his final year of coaching, Mick would have been left with some returning players (juniors and seniors his first year) to start the rebuilding process.

Kennedy's lone year of coaching saw five seniors leave, McGowen, Tilford and Downey come in. That's 8 roster spots out of what should be 13 scholarships. There were 5 spots vacant. Explain to me how Huggins can't shoulder some of this blame? Roy Bright, Tyree Evans, Vincent Banks, Mike Pilgrim, A. Souleymane were some guys that woulda, shoulda, coulda been carryovers. Adbul Herrera the following year. These are guys he recruited that mostly weren't academically eligible. Other than Bright, which I won't completely blame on Huggins, but at the same time he recruited yet another guy with problems that came in a continued to have problems. I realize you recruit guys and sometimes it doesn't work out or they fail to hold up their end of the bargain, but this happened too often in his final years. And this was what got Huggins in hot water with the board and then Zimpher in the first place. The DUI and Roy Bright incident kinda bubbled the situation over.

[BearcatAlum1]

Roy Bright had a gun on freaking campus.

[ready2go]

That guy Devan Downey sure would have been nice to have.

Word is through 2 different sources in the athletic department, was Downey was all ready to stay. Until he had a conversation with Mick. Downey felt it would be his team to lead. Instead of gettin on his knees, Mick said "it is my way or the highway." Downey seeked transfering the next day. Not saying Mick should show favoritism to players, but you can't deny Downey was a stud as a freshman at UC and would have helped this team.

Again, two different individuals confirming this. Not to mention they praised the Mick hiring. So take it for what it is worth.