Huggins Deserves Plaudits

Not Guilty · 03-23-2010, 11:23 PM

Can people stop talking about OJ Mayo (and Michael Beasley for that matter). OJ Mayo was not following Bob Huggins. He didn't follow Bob Huggins to Kansas State because he wanted to go out to LA and make a name for himself.

And if he did come to UC, UC would be in a tone of shit right now, only further staining the reputation of the program. If Huggins wasn't forced out when he was, he definitely would have been after that mess transpired.

As for Beasley, he was following Delonte Hill wherever Hill was. Huggins hired him away from Charlotte when he took the Kansas State job, but there is no reason to think he would have done that at UC with a staff of Andy Kennedy and Frank Martin already in place and no promotion to give Hill. I don't think anyone has mentioned Beasley in this thread, but it is brought up all the time.

Also, can we move on from Downey. He wouldn't have even been here this year had he stayed. The team definitely would have been better every year he was here, but they still would have been miserable in Mick's first year, only slightly better the next year and only an NIT team at best last year.

How anyone can argue that Huggins didn't leave the program a mess from a roster perspective is blind. Its beyond debate. The APR was also a disaster when Mick took over, and Huggins also deserves blame there, as do AK for not holding the players responsible and the administration for the poor handling of the coaching transition. The debate is over how he would have done in the Big East. Obviously he is doing very well now, but I think a strong argument could be made that he needed a fresh start, as Bob Goin has said himself.

I'm a big Bob Huggins fan. I am extremely thankful for what he gave our program over the years. But you can't deny the strong downward trajectory in the last couple years of his time here. I don't understand any Bearcat fan's desire to tear him down, but I also don't understand those that fail to admit what was so obvious.

And by the way, none of this absolves the administration for how badly they handled the situation. That is beyond defensible as well.

david aka the TYZ · 03-23-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Guilty

Can people stop talking about OJ Mayo (and Michael Beasley for that matter). OJ Mayo was not following Bob Huggins. He didn't follow Bob Huggins to Kansas State because he wanted to go out to LA and make a name for himself.

And if he did come to UC, UC would be in a tone of shit right now, only further staining the reputation of the program. If Huggins wasn't forced out when he was, he definitely would have been after that mess transpired.

As for Beasley, he was following Delonte Hill wherever Hill was. Huggins hired him away from Charlotte when he took the Kansas State job, but there is no reason to think he would have done that at UC with a staff of Andy Kennedy and Frank Martin already in place and no promotion to give Hill. I don't think anyone has mentioned Beasley in this thread, but it is brought up all the time.

Also, can we move on from Downey. He wouldn't have even been here this year had he stayed. The team definitely would have been better every year he was here, but they still would have been miserable in Mick's first year, only slightly better the next year and only an NIT team at best last year.

How anyone can argue that Huggins didn't leave the program a mess from a roster perspective is blind. Its beyond debate. The APR was also a disaster when Mick took over, and Huggins also deserves blame there, as do AK for not holding the players responsible and the administration for the poor handling of the coaching transition. The debate is over how he would have done in the Big East. Obviously he is doing very well now, but I think a strong argument could be made that he needed a fresh start, as Bob Goin has said himself.

I'm a big Bob Huggins fan. I am extremely thankful for what he gave our program over the years. But you can't deny the strong downward trajectory in the last couple years of his time here. I don't understand any Bearcat fan's desire to tear him down, but I also don't understand those that fail to admit what was so obvious.

And by the way, none of this absolves the administration for how badly they handled the situation. That is beyond defensible as well.

Well said.

For the record I want everyone to know I wasn't trying to tear Huggins down. I loved his time here and my four years in the student section with him as our coach. I was trying to defend a point which forced me to drag his bad stuff out to light. He made mistakes, I've made my share. I honestly wish fans could get over Huggins being gone and show loyalty to the school and not a coach. Support the coach because he's here and move on when he's not. For the special one's like Huggins, remember the good ol' days, but don't get distracted from the present. And lets keep this true for Kelly. Remember what he did for us, but lets all look forward and not backwards. When you look backwards you'll head backwards. Lets not drag the football program down like we have the basketball program. I realize the two departures are completely different but what the coaches did for the programs was very similar. I don't want Jones or any future coach to live in Kelly's shadow.

ready2go · 03-23-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Guilty

Can people stop talking about OJ Mayo (and Michael Beasley for that matter). OJ Mayo was not following Bob Huggins. He didn't follow Bob Huggins to Kansas State because he wanted to go out to LA and make a name for himself.

And if he did come to UC, UC would be in a tone of shit right now, only further staining the reputation of the program. If Huggins wasn't forced out when he was, he definitely would have been after that mess transpired.

As for Beasley, he was following Delonte Hill wherever Hill was. Huggins hired him away from Charlotte when he took the Kansas State job, but there is no reason to think he would have done that at UC with a staff of Andy Kennedy and Frank Martin already in place and no promotion to give Hill. I don't think anyone has mentioned Beasley in this thread, but it is brought up all the time.

Also, can we move on from Downey. He wouldn't have even been here this year had he stayed. The team definitely would have been better every year he was here, but they still would have been miserable in Mick's first year, only slightly better the next year and only an NIT team at best last year.

How anyone can argue that Huggins didn't leave the program a mess from a roster perspective is blind. Its beyond debate. The APR was also a disaster when Mick took over, and Huggins also deserves blame there, as do AK for not holding the players responsible and the administration for the poor handling of the coaching transition. The debate is over how he would have done in the Big East. Obviously he is doing very well now, but I think a strong argument could be made that he needed a fresh start, as Bob Goin has said himself.

I'm a big Bob Huggins fan. I am extremely thankful for what he gave our program over the years. But you can't deny the strong downward trajectory in the last couple years of his time here. I don't understand any Bearcat fan's desire to tear him down, but I also don't understand those that fail to admit what was so obvious.

And by the way, none of this absolves the administration for how badly they handled the situation. That is beyond defensible as well.

You don't think Bob saw the writing on the wall before he got booted?? Why should he put all this effort into the program when he knew he was going to be gone.

Yes, you are right. The number one issue was the transition time from AK to Mick.

And fine you can forget Mayo if you want, but him and that kid... ummmm Bill Walker wanted to play for Huggs. Id take Walker over Adam H

As for Downey....Hello isn't having him and DV together for atleast 3 years going to help this program not only rebuild, but help recruiting in the future by winning! Why simply say ah man can we forget about Downey. Thats ridiculous.

Not Guilty · 03-23-2010, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ready2go

You don't think Bob saw the writing on the wall before he got booted?? Why should he put all this effort into the program when he knew he was going to be gone.

Yes, you are right. The number one issue was the transition time from AK to Mick.

And fine you can forget Mayo if you want, but him and that kid... ummmm Bill Walker wanted to play for Huggs. Id take Walker over Adam H

As for Downey....Hello isn't having him and DV together for atleast 3 years going to help this program not only rebuild, but help recruiting in the future by winning! Why simply say ah man can we forget about Downey. Thats ridiculous.

If Mayo wanted to play for Huggins, why didn't he. And again, you are ignoring the issues that would have crushed the program had he showed.

I never said anything about Bill Walker. Of course I would have rather had him than Adam H, but that is one player. One player doesn't fix the deficiencies of the roster that were very clearly present. And add on to the fact that Walker stayed two years in college (and maybe would have only stayed one if he didn't get hurt) and he becomes even less meaningful in this discussion.

And like I said with Downey, yes the team would have been better. But one player only makes so much of a difference. Downey never made a NCAA tournament in his career. He would have helped, but he wasn't going to be some kind of savior. AND HE WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN HERE THIS YEAR. So yeah, can we move on.

ucgrad94 · 03-24-2010, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Guilty

Can people stop talking about OJ Mayo (and Michael Beasley for that matter). OJ Mayo was not following Bob Huggins. He didn't follow Bob Huggins to Kansas State because he wanted to go out to LA and make a name for himself.

And if he did come to UC, UC would be in a tone of shit right now, only further staining the reputation of the program. If Huggins wasn't forced out when he was, he definitely would have been after that mess transpired.

As for Beasley, he was following Delonte Hill wherever Hill was. Huggins hired him away from Charlotte when he took the Kansas State job, but there is no reason to think he would have done that at UC with a staff of Andy Kennedy and Frank Martin already in place and no promotion to give Hill. I don't think anyone has mentioned Beasley in this thread, but it is brought up all the time.

Also, can we move on from Downey. He wouldn't have even been here this year had he stayed. The team definitely would have been better every year he was here, but they still would have been miserable in Mick's first year, only slightly better the next year and only an NIT team at best last year.

How anyone can argue that Huggins didn't leave the program a mess from a roster perspective is blind. Its beyond debate. The APR was also a disaster when Mick took over, and Huggins also deserves blame there, as do AK for not holding the players responsible and the administration for the poor handling of the coaching transition. The debate is over how he would have done in the Big East. Obviously he is doing very well now, but I think a strong argument could be made that he needed a fresh start, as Bob Goin has said himself.

I'm a big Bob Huggins fan. I am extremely thankful for what he gave our program over the years. But you can't deny the strong downward trajectory in the last couple years of his time here. I don't understand any Bearcat fan's desire to tear him down, but I also don't understand those that fail to admit what was so obvious.

And by the way, none of this absolves the administration for how badly they handled the situation. That is beyond defensible as well.

Not really sure what a TONE OF SH*T is, but if you are going to make a statement is it possible to do it without the cuss words, and at least spell most of it correctly. As far as Walker and Mayo, Huggins definatly would have gotten Walker, and there was still a good chance he could have gotten Mayo (just because USC got in trouble with Mayo doesn't mean UC would have donet he same things). Also, look at Huggins recruiting class at Kansas State (I know he never coached this class, but he was still a big part in signing them). Ranked #1 according to scout.com. Current players include:
Jacob Pullen- Kstate leading scorer
Jamar Samuels- 3rd leading scorer
Dominuque Sutton-4th leading scorer

Basically what I'm trying to say is you think Huggins wasn't gonna get great players to come to UC? Only reason cupboard was bare was because of the lame duck coaching season Kennedy had, not because of Huggins.

swg · 03-24-2010, 06:19 AM

I for one don't care about APR's or graduation rates. The NCAA is more concerned with making money than graduating football or basketball athletes. If they weren't, then why make the exceptions for admissions they do? It's lip service designed to make it look like they actually care.
When you are an SEC football team who takes more than 30 recruits because you know some will a. not qualify
b. go to jail
c. put them on ice at a junior college for two years
You're not too worried about finding the Right Kind of Guys for your institution.

Hell, you notice more games in a season of football than before, and also conference championships. In hoops, there are also more games than there were 20 years, conference tourneys, and expanded NCAA tourney.

Think the presidents and AD's are worried about the kids going to class or making money for the schools? Let's call it what it is, a cash cow.
If UC got a player who was one and done, or left to Europe or the NBA before graduating...I wouldn't call that a failure, I would say it's the equivalent of getting a masters or ph.d.

adrock · 03-24-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucgrad94

Not really sure what a TONE OF SH*T is, but if you are going to make a statement is it possible to do it without the cuss words, and at least spell most of it correctly. As far as Walker and Mayo, Huggins definatly would have gotten Walker, and there was still a good chance he could have gotten Mayo (just because USC got in trouble with Mayo doesn't mean UC would have donet he same things).

I understand your uneasiness with the cussing. Unfortunately, this is an effect of the lack of censorship on this board. People are free to speak their minds. As for the spelling jab though, I'm not normally spelling and grammar police, but if you live in a glass house...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ready2go

That guy Devan Downey sure would have been nice to have.

Word is through 2 different sources in the athletic department, was Downey was all ready to stay. Until he had a conversation with Mick. Downey felt it would be his team to lead. Instead of gettin on his knees, Mick said "it is my way or the highway." Downey seeked transfering the next day. Not saying Mick should show favoritism to players, but you can't deny Downey was a stud as a freshman at UC and would have helped this team.

Again, two different individuals confirming this. Not to mention they praised the Mick hiring. So take it for what it is worth.

I believe we have all heard this version of the story. If it's true, I commend Mick for letting the best player on his team go so he could maintain authority. Do you know how colossally stupid it would be to basically tell a 19 year old kid that he has more power than the coach? Can you imagine the dysfunction that would cause with the coach, the player in question, every other player on the roster, and potential recruits? Try to think of this objectively: If we could have kept Downey, would you not have been screaming about how Mick has "lost this team"? It's a complaint I hear from many critics of the coach, yet it seems like more than a few of those same critics would have endorsed Mick willingly "losing the team" by having two sets of rules: One for Downey, and one for everyone else.

"My way or the highway" is the only way a coach can do his job.

ready2go · 03-24-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrock

I understand your uneasiness with the cussing. Unfortunately, this is an effect of the lack of censorship on this board. People are free to speak their minds. As for the spelling jab though, I'm not normally spelling and grammar police, but if you live in a glass house...

I believe we have all heard this version of the story. If it's true, I commend Mick for letting the best player on his team go so he could maintain authority. Do you know how colossally stupid it would be to basically tell a 19 year old kid that he has more power than the coach? Can you imagine the dysfunction that would cause with the coach, the player in question, every other player on the roster, and potential recruits? Try to think of this objectively: If we could have kept Downey, would you not have been screaming about how Mick has "lost this team"? It's a complaint I hear from many critics of the coach, yet it seems like more than a few of those same critics would have endorsed Mick willingly "losing the team" by having two sets of rules: One for Downey, and one for everyone else.

"My way or the highway" is the only way a coach can do his job.

Ok let's put it this way. Instead of coming in like you are somebody or acting like you are Bob Knight, why not tell the best player on your team. "We go as far as you can take us." Any GOOD coach tells his best player that. Don't come in like Johnny Badass when you hadn't accomplished a thing. Give the kid credit for even considering to stay when he knew that the program was going to be in trouble.

You are right, that you can't let players run the team. But telling your best player to take over games and to carry the team is a completely different situation. Perhaps he should have told Vaughn that this year!

ready2go · 03-24-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Guilty

If Mayo wanted to play for Huggins, why didn't he. And again, you are ignoring the issues that would have crushed the program had he showed.

I never said anything about Bill Walker. Of course I would have rather had him than Adam H, but that is one player. One player doesn't fix the deficiencies of the roster that were very clearly present. And add on to the fact that Walker stayed two years in college (and maybe would have only stayed one if he didn't get hurt) and he becomes even less meaningful in this discussion.

And like I said with Downey, yes the team would have been better. But one player only makes so much of a difference. Downey never made a NCAA tournament in his career. He would have helped, but he wasn't going to be some kind of savior. AND HE WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN HERE THIS YEAR. So yeah, can we move on.

My argument wasn't about him being here this year. My arguments was that alongside DV, who was a one man wrecking crew for 2 years, would have made this team more competative and instead if the CBI perhaps we'd already be past the stage of the NIT. Winning solves everything. Recruiting, angry fans and national exposure.

ucgrad94 · 03-24-2010, 12:36 PM

[QUOTE=adrock;8253]I understand your uneasiness with the cussing. Unfortunately, this is an effect of the lack of censorship on this board. People are free to speak their minds. As for the spelling jab though, I'm not normally spelling and grammar police, but if you live in a glass house...QUOTE]

Good catch with my bad spelling, I give you credit for that. However, your saying I am allowed to cuss as much as I want and there is nothing that can be done about this? I find that hard to believe. I could drop every word in the book and nothing will be done? That is nice to know, but I still don't think i will be doing that anytime soon.

Mick has one more year, make the tournament or find a new job. It's as simple as that.

03-23-2010, 11:23 PM	#41
Not Guilty Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 628	Can people stop talking about OJ Mayo (and Michael Beasley for that matter). OJ Mayo was not following Bob Huggins. He didn't follow Bob Huggins to Kansas State because he wanted to go out to LA and make a name for himself. And if he did come to UC, UC would be in a tone of shit right now, only further staining the reputation of the program. If Huggins wasn't forced out when he was, he definitely would have been after that mess transpired. As for Beasley, he was following Delonte Hill wherever Hill was. Huggins hired him away from Charlotte when he took the Kansas State job, but there is no reason to think he would have done that at UC with a staff of Andy Kennedy and Frank Martin already in place and no promotion to give Hill. I don't think anyone has mentioned Beasley in this thread, but it is brought up all the time. Also, can we move on from Downey. He wouldn't have even been here this year had he stayed. The team definitely would have been better every year he was here, but they still would have been miserable in Mick's first year, only slightly better the next year and only an NIT team at best last year. How anyone can argue that Huggins didn't leave the program a mess from a roster perspective is blind. Its beyond debate. The APR was also a disaster when Mick took over, and Huggins also deserves blame there, as do AK for not holding the players responsible and the administration for the poor handling of the coaching transition. The debate is over how he would have done in the Big East. Obviously he is doing very well now, but I think a strong argument could be made that he needed a fresh start, as Bob Goin has said himself. I'm a big Bob Huggins fan. I am extremely thankful for what he gave our program over the years. But you can't deny the strong downward trajectory in the last couple years of his time here. I don't understand any Bearcat fan's desire to tear him down, but I also don't understand those that fail to admit what was so obvious. And by the way, none of this absolves the administration for how badly they handled the situation. That is beyond defensible as well.

03-24-2010, 06:19 AM	#46
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	I for one don't care about APR's or graduation rates. The NCAA is more concerned with making money than graduating football or basketball athletes. If they weren't, then why make the exceptions for admissions they do? It's lip service designed to make it look like they actually care. When you are an SEC football team who takes more than 30 recruits because you know some will a. not qualify b. go to jail c. put them on ice at a junior college for two years You're not too worried about finding the Right Kind of Guys for your institution. Hell, you notice more games in a season of football than before, and also conference championships. In hoops, there are also more games than there were 20 years, conference tourneys, and expanded NCAA tourney. Think the presidents and AD's are worried about the kids going to class or making money for the schools? Let's call it what it is, a cash cow. If UC got a player who was one and done, or left to Europe or the NBA before graduating...I wouldn't call that a failure, I would say it's the equivalent of getting a masters or ph.d.

03-24-2010, 12:36 PM	#50
ucgrad94 Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 50	[QUOTE=adrock;8253]I understand your uneasiness with the cussing. Unfortunately, this is an effect of the lack of censorship on this board. People are free to speak their minds. As for the spelling jab though, I'm not normally spelling and grammar police, but if you live in a glass house...QUOTE] Good catch with my bad spelling, I give you credit for that. However, your saying I am allowed to cuss as much as I want and there is nothing that can be done about this? I find that hard to believe. I could drop every word in the book and nothing will be done? That is nice to know, but I still don't think i will be doing that anytime soon. Mick has one more year, make the tournament or find a new job. It's as simple as that.