Seniors and Juniors

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by L-T

You do realize that when your getting a 1 to 4 seed almost every year, that there are very few opportunities to beat a higher seed. When you do get an opportunity, you're playing a 1 or 2 seed which is far more difficult than the Cronin teams have with the lower seeds we tend to get now and having to upset a middle of the pack seed.

Remember, Mick was going to take the program to the next step. You can argue that academically, that may have happened, but it certainly hasn't come close to happening on the court. I sat there the other night looking up at a pretty empty upper deck playing an ACC team and I was wondering where all those fans have gone.

You made a key point above when you praised him for winning with inferior talent. That is a good thing. But the fact that we always have inferior talent is not. When your accomplishments are winning with inferior talent, beating a higher seed in the NCAA tournament, and graduating your players, is that the next level we all wanted 7 years ago?

I agree with your point about higher seeds and attendence. I understand your other points but we have seen, what I would consider, steady improvement almost every year for the most part in both production (winning games) and attendence. The last two recruiting classes are clearly leaning towards better BB talent and less pure athletes. Even if we keep improving slowly I think we are still headed upwards.

Of course we all wanted to see things happen faster. That is the nature of almost any fan. I know I did/do. Unless we see a consistent regression or hit a ceiling in terms of NCAA tournament potential...I am still on board with Cronin. Our coach is passionate about being a Bearcat lifer, has a lot of his career left, and has put the uinversity's reputation above keeping his job at any cost.

[bearcat jeff]

I get sick of people who try to minimize what Mick Cronin has done. The fact is all those 1-4 seeds resulted in a lot of second round losses which means a lot of loses to lower seeds as well. Some cannot remember the past fondly in reality and still appreciate the present. Some would have you believe those 1-4 seeds resulted in a sweet sixteen or higher for fourteen straight years and forget that after the elite eight run that Huggins had one sweet sixteen and multiple second and first round losses to lower seeds.

[L-T]

Originally Posted by waterhead

I agree with your point about higher seeds and attendence. I understand your other points but we have seen, what I would consider, steady improvement almost every year for the most part in both production (winning games) and attendence. The last two recruiting classes are clearly leaning towards better BB talent and less pure athletes. Even if we keep improving slowly I think we are still headed upwards.

Of course we all wanted to see things happen faster. That is the nature of almost any fan. I know I did/do. Unless we see a consistent regression or hit a ceiling in terms of NCAA tournament potential...I am still on board with Cronin. Our coach is passionate about being a Bearcat lifer, has a lot of his career left, and has put the uinversity's reputation above keeping his job at any cost.

I'm not sure I buy the fact that he is recuiting this way intentionally, solely for the sake of the University's reputation. We have to just accept the fact that we're appearing more like a mid-major program today and doing it in a mid-major conference. While fan support was a little better last year, It certainly was far from good. I agree these last two recruiting classes have shown improvement and I really like what I'm seeing so far this year. Mick's job is safe, but we're 7 years in and we need to do something substantial soon or we'll just get lost in mediocrity. We shouldn't be happy where we are today. Major college sports doesn't feel we are worthy to be a part of their fraternity and some of that is certainly on Mick. We might not have the thug reputation anymore, but we also don't have a Top 25 reputation either. We can't be happy with just being pretty good.

[bearcat jeff]

The issues are outdated facilities and revenue and had little to do with the programs. Both programs are winning and fans don't attend and the facilities are poor. Its simply silly to imply otherwise.

[L-T]

Originally Posted by bearcat jeff

The issues are outdated facilities and revenue and had little to do with the programs. Both programs are winning and fans don't attend and the facilities are poor. Its simply silly to imply otherwise.

I don't see Duke getting held back by Cameron Indoor Stadium. It's a "lot" more than revenue and facilities. The program is winning. It is graduating players. That's about it. I sure hope this year's team does more than just win. I'm hopeful!
.

[JumpinJack5]

Originally Posted by bearcat jeff

I get sick of people who try to minimize what Mick Cronin has done. The fact is all those 1-4 seeds resulted in a lot of second round losses which means a lot of loses to lower seeds as well. Some cannot remember the past fondly in reality and still appreciate the present. Some would have you believe those 1-4 seeds resulted in a sweet sixteen or higher for fourteen straight years and forget that after the elite eight run that Huggins had one sweet sixteen and multiple second and first round losses to lower seeds.

People whine about Mick and then praise Huggins. THEY ARE BOTH ALMOST EXACTLY IDENTICAL!!!!! They both develop tough teams that struggle offensively and have a tendency to play to the level of their opponent. Both really emphasize defense and both have had teams that just cannot shoot free throws. Both have done a lot with inferior talent. Mick hasn't made it as far as Huggs made it yet, but Huggs also didn't have to take over a program that had next to no scholarship players. Mick has done a fine job and he is a good coach, and even though I do get frustrated with our offense every year, he knows what he is doing defensively.

[L-T]

Originally Posted by JumpinJack5

People whine about Mick and then praise Huggins. THEY ARE BOTH ALMOST EXACTLY IDENTICAL!!!!! They both develop tough teams that struggle offensively and have a tendency to play to the level of their opponent. Both really emphasize defense and both have had teams that just cannot shoot free throws. Both have done a lot with inferior talent. Mick hasn't made it as far as Huggs made it yet, but Huggs also didn't have to take over a program that had next to no scholarship players. Mick has done a fine job and he is a good coach, and even though I do get frustrated with our offense every year, he knows what he is doing defensively.

Lol! This post is funny. Please don't make me list the names of our inferior talent from those years.

[bearcat jeff]

Originally Posted by L-T

I don't see Duke getting held back by Cameron Indoor Stadium. It's a "lot" more than revenue and facilities. The program is winning. It is graduating players. That's about it. I sure hope this year's team does more than just win. I'm hopeful!
.

The ACC came out and said Louisville had more to offer financially. They specifically mentioned facilities and the instant revenue they bring. Duke generates huge revenue and Cameron is a small but renown facility where the energy is off the charts and makes for good television which generates more revenue. UC will be televised more this season than any time in years. As usual you are wrong.

[Nomadic1]

Originally Posted by L-T

I'm not sure I buy the fact that he is recuiting this way intentionally, solely for the sake of the University's reputation. We have to just accept the fact that we're appearing more like a mid-major program today and doing it in a mid-major conference. While fan support was a little better last year, It certainly was far from good. I agree these last two recruiting classes have shown improvement and I really like what I'm seeing so far this year. Mick's job is safe, but we're 7 years in and we need to do something substantial soon or we'll just get lost in mediocrity. We shouldn't be happy where we are today. Major college sports doesn't feel we are worthy to be a part of their fraternity and some of that is certainly on Mick. We might not have the thug reputation anymore, but we also don't have a Top 25 reputation either. We can't be happy with just being pretty good.

.... Worthy? What does being "worthy" have to do with anything? What has Wake Forest or BC done to be worthy? Basketball is irrelevant and the only people clinging to the nostalgia of the Huggins era are the ones who understand nothing of TV markets, research grants, AAU status etc.
Our accomplishments on the basketball court have nothing to do with why we aren't in another power conference. If they did, Rutgers would be in the MAC. That's just reality.


We are in a pro sports town, who doesn't give a flying ____ about college football. A bunch of old fogeys who care about an NFL team who hasn't won a playoff game since Joe Montana played his last year, and a baseball team who hasn't won a playoff series since 1995. Football drives the bus and the antipathy this town has toward success is embarrassing. UC employs more people than anyone else in Cincinnati and is looked at as an eyesore.

They have people at the Enquirer asking Anthony McClung what it was like under Brian Kelly when he was recruited by Butch Jones. It's like they enjoy being miserable, masochists. Which is probably why they support the Bengals and the reds... Not to mention, why they can't be bothered to fix crappier parts of downtown, why they pin their hopes and dreams on a retarded trolley car oops I mean rail car project set to take us back to the end of the 19th century.

Cincinnati has the spirit of a dead man and at a certain point, it's a hard sell. We no longer have a major hub near us since CVG is down sizing. People need to get over themselves or they'll just sit and wallow in their own self centered, childish, emotional excrement. Sorry prideless bastards.

[bearcat jeff]

[QUOTE=Nomadic1;73321].... Worthy? What does being "worthy" have to do with anything? What has Wake Forest or BC done to be worthy? Basketball is irrelevant and the only people clinging to the nostalgia of the Huggins era are the ones who understand nothing of TV markets, research grants, AAU status etc.
Our accomplishments on the basketball court have nothing to do with why we aren't in another power conference. If they did, Rutgers would be in the MAC. That's just reality.


We are in a pro sports town, who doesn't give a flying ____ about college football. A bunch of old fogeys who care about an NFL team who hasn't won a playoff game since Joe Montana played his last year, and a baseball team who hasn't won a playoff series since 1995. Football drives the bus and the antipathy this town has toward success is embarrassing. UC employs more people than anyone else in Cincinnati and is looked at as an eyesore.

They have people at the Enquirer asking Anthony McClung what it was like under Brian Kelly when he was recruited by Butch Jones. It's like they enjoy being miserable, masochists. Which is probably why they support the Bengals and the reds... Not to mention, why they can't be bothered to fix crappier parts of downtown, why they pin their hopes and dreams on a retarded trolley car oops I mean rail car project set to take us back to the end of the 19th century.

Cincinnati has the spirit of a dead man and at a certain point, it's a hard sell. We no longer have a major hub near us since CVG is down sizing. People need to get over themselves or they'll just sit and wallow in their own self centered, childish, emotional excrement. Sorry prideless bastards.[/QUOTE

You make very excellent points. Probably not the way I would have stated it but excellent points all the same.