Future teams

[bearcat1518]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

Literally no one expects this

I would hope not! But UCats329 posted "he's taking up the scholarship of what could be a 4-star 2020 recruit".

We would only have 6 guys on scholarship heading into 2020 season (Vogt would be the 7th). Leaving 6 more open. That statement implies anyone not a 4-star is taking up on those 6...

BTW...Vogt was #349 and 3-Star recruit. Where was all this animosity over Nsoseme (#471), Moore (#340), Gilliam (#322), Strickland (#346), etc.

Every chill out.....

[Alum2013]

Originally Posted by UCats329

There's a reason Mick Cronin recruited those guys and not Chris Vogt, and it's not that he's an idiot...

Right...because Mick has NEVER missed on a recruit before...This guy was ranked higher than Nosememe and hasn't played any worse. I'm not saying this kid is amazing but to think he can't replace our 2nd string players is just ignorant.

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

Yes Diarra is much much better. Diarra is more athletic. Has far more skill and just needs an opportunity.

Except he's really not that good. I've never seen someone look more lost on the floor than when he's playing. He literally just runs around on offense and is always lost on defense.

Most people here have probably never even seen this kid play yet deem him crap simply because Brannen recruited him and Mick didn't.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by Alum2013

Right...because Mick has NEVER missed on a recruit before...This guy was ranked higher than Nosememe and hasn't played any worse. I'm not saying this kid is amazing but to think he can't replace our 2nd string players is just ignorant.

Except he's really not that good. I've never seen someone look more lost on the floor than when he's playing. He literally just runs around on offense and is always lost on defense.

Most people here have probably never even seen this kid play yet deem him crap simply because Brannen recruited him and Mick didn't.

We won't know until he plays at UC's level. All the stats from the horizon league are almost as meaningless as HS stats. And there were plenty of people who deemed Mick's project recruits crap.

I'd say Vogt looks a lot less game ready then Nsoseme was. Vogt doesn't have the body mass and is going to be pushed around if he doesn't put on a fair amount of weight. it's a little concerning that he is still so skinny after 2 years of college. The 7.7 fouls per 40 minutes is also a major concern. Hopefully the transfer year will help him.

Diarra looked lost last year, but Diarra has the size, athleticism and offensive skilset to become a star. He needs to learn to play team basketball and I expect next year will help him a lot in that aspect. I see Diarra as a potential star, I see Vogt as a potential solid role-player.

Still we have plenty of scholarships and need warm bodies. Someone familiar with Brannen's system is also nice to add. I would have preferred a center who could contribute this year, but maybe there is someone still in the pipeline.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by bearcat1518

I would hope not! But UCats329 posted "he's taking up the scholarship of what could be a 4-star 2020 recruit".

We would only have 6 guys on scholarship heading into 2020 season (Vogt would be the 7th). Leaving 6 more open. That statement implies anyone not a 4-star is taking up on those 6...

BTW...Vogt was #349 and 3-Star recruit. Where was all this animosity over Nsoseme (#471), Moore (#340), Gilliam (#322), Strickland (#346), etc.

Every chill out.....

Hey, don't you be out here using facts and stuff. That kind of thing isn't tolerated here.



The truth is if you hate this pick up, then you also hated over half of micks recent recruits.



There is a clear shift here though. Basketball skill vs athletic ability.

[cincycpaw]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Diarra looked lost last year, but Diarra has the size, athleticism and offensive skilset to become a star. He needs to learn to play team basketball and I expect next year will help him a lot in that aspect. I see Diarra as a potential star, I see Vogt as a potential solid role-player.

Still we have plenty of scholarships and need warm bodies. Someone familiar with Brannen's system is also nice to add. I would have preferred a center who could contribute this year, but maybe there is someone still in the pipeline.

I agree with this. The ceiling is much higher for Diarra, IMO. But, after getting over the disappointment that the announcement was going to be for a potential starter, this is not a bad add with all the openings we have. Get him in the strength program and let's see where he ends up.

Does anyone know - if he gets the ball at the rim does he try to dunk? Cause that would be an improvement.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

Hey, don't you be out here using facts and stuff. That kind of thing isn't tolerated here.



The truth is if you hate this pick up, then you also hated over half of micks recent recruits.



There is a clear shift here though. Basketball skill vs athletic ability.

Not sure where you look at Vogt and see basketball skill. He shot 38% from the FT line and can't do much besides dunk. He did have a better assist rate then our past two centers (Brooks, Washington), but that may be a product of team style rather than skill. He's a taller, weaker, less athletic body than Brooks or Nsoseme. But he doesn't have anymore basketball skill.

On the basketball skill to athletic ability scale Davenport was about equal skill and slightly less athleticism compared to similar Mick SF's - but more ready to play day 1. Vogt is equal skill and significantly less athletic ability. That's what happens when your recruiting low rated guys late in the recruiting cycle.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Not sure where you look at Vogt and see basketball skill. He shot 38% from the FT line and can't do much besides dunk. He did have a better assist rate then our past two centers (Brooks, Washington), but that may be a product of team style rather than skill. He's a taller, weaker, less athletic body than Brooks or Nsoseme. But he doesn't have anymore basketball skill.

On the basketball skill to athletic ability scale Davenport was about equal skill and slightly less athleticism compared to similar Mick SF's - but more ready to play day 1. Vogt is equal skill and significantly less athletic ability. That's what happens when your recruiting low rated guys late in the recruiting cycle.

He can't shoot FT's, but he can score around the rim. .575% on 2 pointers is good. Nsoseme was 39.5%. He's much more skilled than Nsoseme. Saying otherwise is hilarious.

[Loser Mentality]

First post....I think UC Basketball is going to be okay, and I am excited for the upcoming 2019-2020 season.

With a more offensive minded coach, I expect to see the "Mick Masterlock" taken off these ball players. Which in turn we could see leaps and bounds with the current players we have left.

Keith Williams is a perfect example of looking at the sideline to see if he was coming out, on shots or mistakes. This guy played @ Rucker Park...So the toughness, etc is already there. The more freely these guys can play offense, the reward will be better offensive development and deeper tournament runs.


This will also impact recruiting going forward, especially within the city with the pick up of the former Moeller star. Inner City players love UC basketball, but Mick's former style of offense was always a key factor of why inner city kids would go elsewhere instead of staying home.

I can't wait to see Diarra as well this season. Yes he looked lost at times, but he showed no hesitation in taking a shot, in an offense that was mostly confer with Mick first before you take a shot, "Confident in his own game" I couldn't say that for most, if not all of Mick's recruits.

Hopefully we recruit a true PG that's a LEADER/Facilitator/Scorer from Day 1. No more SG converts to PG, unless highly skilled 3,4 and 5 players are being recruited to offset, not having a true PG that could facilitate to serviceable 3, 4, and 5 players.

[Queens_NYC]

If I had to choose between 2 more years of Nsoseme and 2 years of Vogt (with one year being a redshirt) with both players playing ~15 minutes/game, I'd choose Nsoseme.

If his hand injury alleviates, I think Nsoseme could eventually have a similar impact as Aflakpui from Temple who averaged 6 & 7 in his senior year.

I could picture Vogt really struggling to defend the likes of Wiseman, Echenique, Carlton, Chargois, and Michael Durr next season. Hopefully he gets a lot stronger if he does end up sitting out a year.

With that being said, Vogt has a much higher offensive ceiling than Nsoseme but the prospect of him being our starting center over the next 2 seasons is still a bit discouraging. I'd rather just play small/more position-less in that case.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by Queens_NYC

With that being said, Vogt has a much higher offensive ceiling than Nsoseme but the prospect of him being our starting center over the next 2 seasons is still a bit discouraging. I'd rather just play small/more position-less in that case.

look at how he was used last year. i dont know all these teams but the UC game was his 3rd highest minute total on the year, and he got 20 or more 5 games. I'd bet they were against teams that play with big themselves similar to how we did.


He was extremely effective in 3 of the 5 games he got 20+ minutes scoring 20, 16, and 16.



i think brannen is the type of coach to use a guy if the game dictates using him, but he's not going to just force a guy in there. Vogt will probably be used in games where Brannen feels like he's a mismatch for a specific team, and not much in the rest of the games.