UCF Round 2

**waterhead** · 02-20-2020, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

i only referenced rebounding because thats what brannen specifically references when he said he'd bench guys if he could.

when mika went into the backcourt to get that one loose ball and UCF won the battle and got a dunk/layup out of it. keith was the closest guy besides the 2 that went after the loose ball. and he just stood and watched as UCF ran down the court. if keith even jogs back, we get that loose ball.

that stuff just can't happen when you're fighting for your tournament life. there is no tomorrow.

Yah I heard that from Brannen about rebounding but not boxing out is just one area of effort. As you mentioned...we aren't in a position to be dogging it on any play unless we are up 20 with a couple of minutes to go.

Coach needs to take some blame himself and then call some players out. I don't care if he calls them all out. Some of those plays were an absolutely embarrassing display of effort with tourney hopes still on the line.

And Keith will be one of our top 2 returning players if not the top. And Vogt is not a good rebounder. That's probably going to be a developmental year with frosh getting a lot of minutes to get them ready

**waterhead** · 02-20-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

we can go back and forth on that but i think its pretty clear they never practice zone defense. and when they do its a gimmicky 1-3-1.

the defense has gone from looking awful to getting a lot of stops in multiple games this season. without changing anything. effort went up and defense got much better.

just "switching something" does not guarantee a better outcome. there seems to be the assumption that it does.

we gave up 13 points the last 10 minutes of regulation. its not likely any other defense gives up less points than that, and we likely don't even get to OT by switching things up.

I agree it's a 40 minute effort thing...we can get stops when we want. If it is due to fatigue we need a new plan. We need to stop these stupid pre-scheduled breaks to bring in the bench and start giving individual breathers (only when a player is tired). As soon as the player catches their breath put them back in immediately...but mandate max effort with no exceptions. I don't care if they need 3 breaks per half at 1-2 minutes each.

Tre really doesn't need many breaks...he is still better tired than any bench player. Hell I would probably let him go 40 minutes actually. Jarron gets lazy and careless when he's tired and Keith looks like he just finished a marathon at times. We have 4 decent guards to rotate

skyblade · 02-20-2020, 01:40 PM

Not everybody can be a great rebounder, but a lot of guys on this team can be better than they are. Last year 6'2" Logan Johnson averaged more rebounds (per 40 minutes in conference) than anybody on the team not named Scott or Diarra has averaged per 40 in conference. And even if you can't grab the rebound, you can still box out.

I don't think anybody doubts that this team can play well. But they have to give 40 minutes effort and it's on the coach to find a way to get them to. It was something Cronin had nearly mastered (and why we very rarely lost games we shouldn't lose) and something Brannen still needs to work on.

Brannen's substitution patterns are some of the most ridiculous of any coach. Putting 3/4 subs in at one scheduled time in the first half, rather than sub guys in and out as they need a rest. And then in the second half he seems to dislike subbing anyone in or out besides Cumberland/MAW.

Give guys breaks when they need them and the coach should be the one judging if they need one, rather than the player. I didn't like the Cronin method of subbing a guy out after one mistake, but if a guy is not giving effort, he needs to come out.

We have 9/10 guys who are capable of playing, at least for short stretches. They need to know that if they aren't in there giving maximum effort, they are coming out. Especially the subs, there's no reason for guys like Davenport and Harvey to be averaging under 2.5 rebounds/40 minutes in conference. If they can't get it done, maybe you play Rob Banks for a while just to make a point.

As for switching things up, maybe it wouldn't lead to a win. But I feel the same way I felt when we lost the game to BGSU because McNeal couldn't make a free throw. I'd rather try something different and have it fail and lose, then watch us do the same thing over and over and fail and lose.

cincyguy13 · 02-20-2020, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

we can go back and forth on that but i think its pretty clear they never practice zone defense. and when they do its a gimmicky 1-3-1.

the defense has gone from looking awful to getting a lot of stops in multiple games this season. without changing anything. effort went up and defense got much better.

just "switching something" does not guarantee a better outcome. there seems to be the assumption that it does.

we gave up 13 points the last 10 minutes of regulation. its not likely any other defense gives up less points than that, and we likely don't even get to OT by switching things up.

Nothing guarantees better outcomes. Still have to try. Doing the same thing that isn’t working over and over is definitely not a good strategy for success

justinhub2003 · 02-20-2020, 01:42 PM

The problem with the defense is that it only works in spurts.

UCF had 23 points at the roughly 10 minute mark in the first half, it put them on Pace for 92 points, but we buckled down, finished the half strong, then we just let it get worse and worse as the games progresses.

I mean, I've never seen a team play such good defense for 25 seconds, only to break down in the last seconds and allow an uncontested layup.

The defense isn't confusing. It doesn't require you to think. Its basically relying on one on one defense and in basketball, everyone wants that match.

Houston has a gimmick. They have great shot blockers. Yet they double every post touch. It doesn't matter if you're Chris Vogt, Tacko Fall or frickin Jay Sorolla. IF you catch it in the post against Houston, they immediately double.

It causes the big to over think his next move. And its why they are the best team in the league.

And until Kelvin Sampson either leaves or takes another job, I can't see him a scenario where UC is king of the league again.

Its funny that John Brannen noted his idea player was Keith Williams. And yet, has even tried to recruit a player like Keith to cincinnati?

justinhub2003 · 02-20-2020, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

Nothing guarantees better outcomes. Still have to try. Doing the same thing that isn’t working over and over is definitely not a good strategy for success

If we gave the 2-3 Zone or even a matchup a true effort and it failed, I'd never bring it up again.

The thing about the Bearcats defense of old is they wouldn't let you do what you wanted to do.

But it was Clear what UCF wanted to do. They wanted to spread us way out, until the paint was wide open and then drive us one on one.

Like the objective was clear as day. And it worked. we did nothing to stop it.

Then, on the other end, UCF made it feel like there were 30 guys in the paint protecting it for them.

Lets just run whatever defense they run. protect the paint.

THERE ARE 32 CONFERENCES. THE AAC IS 29TH IN 3PT%

EVERY ONE IN THIS LEAGUE SHOULD ZONE EACH OTHER.

cincrulz11 · 02-20-2020, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

Its funny that John Brannen noted his idea player was Keith Williams. And yet, has even tried to recruit a player like Keith to cincinnati?

first class

zach harvey

what do i win?

cincyguy13 · 02-20-2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

If we gave the 2-3 Zone or even a matchup a true effort and it failed, I'd never bring it up again.

The thing about the Bearcats defense of old is they wouldn't let you do what you wanted to do.

But it was Clear what UCF wanted to do. They wanted to spread us way out, until the paint was wide open and then drive us one on one.

Like the objective was clear as day. And it worked. we did nothing to stop it.

Then, on the other end, UCF made it feel like there were 30 guys in the paint protecting it for them.

Lets just run whatever defense they run. protect the paint.

THERE ARE 32 CONFERENCES. THE AAC IS 29TH IN 3PT%

EVERY ONE IN THIS LEAGUE SHOULD ZONE EACH OTHER.

We will most likely never have a cronin defense. Which I’m fine with. Cronin got guys that could only play defense. Which is also fine. There are many ways to win, but you’re right, you have to try different ways to win. If something isn’t working.

justinhub2003 · 02-20-2020, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

first class

zach harvey

what do i win?

Zach Harvey was never scouted to be an uber athletic guy.

He is a smooth athlete but nothing like Keith Williams

Bcatfollower · 02-20-2020, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

Zach Harvey was never scouted to be an uber athletic guy.

He is a smooth athlete but nothing like Keith Williams

Eason? Saunders?

02-20-2020, 01:40 PM	#203
skyblade Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,790	Not everybody can be a great rebounder, but a lot of guys on this team can be better than they are. Last year 6'2" Logan Johnson averaged more rebounds (per 40 minutes in conference) than anybody on the team not named Scott or Diarra has averaged per 40 in conference. And even if you can't grab the rebound, you can still box out. I don't think anybody doubts that this team can play well. But they have to give 40 minutes effort and it's on the coach to find a way to get them to. It was something Cronin had nearly mastered (and why we very rarely lost games we shouldn't lose) and something Brannen still needs to work on. Brannen's substitution patterns are some of the most ridiculous of any coach. Putting 3/4 subs in at one scheduled time in the first half, rather than sub guys in and out as they need a rest. And then in the second half he seems to dislike subbing anyone in or out besides Cumberland/MAW. Give guys breaks when they need them and the coach should be the one judging if they need one, rather than the player. I didn't like the Cronin method of subbing a guy out after one mistake, but if a guy is not giving effort, he needs to come out. We have 9/10 guys who are capable of playing, at least for short stretches. They need to know that if they aren't in there giving maximum effort, they are coming out. Especially the subs, there's no reason for guys like Davenport and Harvey to be averaging under 2.5 rebounds/40 minutes in conference. If they can't get it done, maybe you play Rob Banks for a while just to make a point. As for switching things up, maybe it wouldn't lead to a win. But I feel the same way I felt when we lost the game to BGSU because McNeal couldn't make a free throw. I'd rather try something different and have it fail and lose, then watch us do the same thing over and over and fail and lose. Last edited by skyblade; 02-20-2020 at 01:44 PM.

02-20-2020, 01:42 PM	#205
justinhub2003 Epic Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 5,583	The problem with the defense is that it only works in spurts. UCF had 23 points at the roughly 10 minute mark in the first half, it put them on Pace for 92 points, but we buckled down, finished the half strong, then we just let it get worse and worse as the games progresses. I mean, I've never seen a team play such good defense for 25 seconds, only to break down in the last seconds and allow an uncontested layup. The defense isn't confusing. It doesn't require you to think. Its basically relying on one on one defense and in basketball, everyone wants that match. Houston has a gimmick. They have great shot blockers. Yet they double every post touch. It doesn't matter if you're Chris Vogt, Tacko Fall or frickin Jay Sorolla. IF you catch it in the post against Houston, they immediately double. It causes the big to over think his next move. And its why they are the best team in the league. And until Kelvin Sampson either leaves or takes another job, I can't see him a scenario where UC is king of the league again. Its funny that John Brannen noted his idea player was Keith Williams. And yet, has even tried to recruit a player like Keith to cincinnati?