Game Thread: UC vs (18)OSU 11/6/2019

cincyguy13 · 11-08-2019, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehole3

I was looking for effort and I was very satisfied. It is to early to pass judgement or panic about the team right now. I LOVE the 7 footers, they will play better. I felt the 7 footers were feeling their way through the game and will make adjustments as the year goes along. I don't think they beat X but I do feel better about their chances vs X and the AAC.

Our bigs played great pick and role defense. Osu tried to exposed them but never could.

cincrulz11 · 11-08-2019, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhead

And to be even more fair. Some of the Cronin haters (not me or you) had a lot of time to develop that feeling. So complaining in the first game of season 12 would be a lot different than 1 game into a new tenure.

I was a hardcore Mick defender for 10 years on this board.

**waterhead** · 11-08-2019, 08:16 AM

Brannen's show was quite funny for his perceived deadpan personality. Of course Terry Nelson asking questions helps bring out the humor.

Nelson asked you are very into analytics and metrics...how does your family feel about that...does that leak into the kitchen with percentages and stuff? Brannen said no I do not mention if the house is 70% clean or the food 40% cooked.

Brannen also said a scout that has watched 38 different teams practice told him UC moves the ball better/faster than 37. brannen said it's not fast enough yet...we have to work on that.

He talks a lot about a consistent message. The players need to know it's going to be the same message all the time no matter the subject.

**waterhead** · 11-08-2019, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

I was a hardcore Mick defender for 10 years on this board.

Yah...I defended him against haters/trolls and knee jerk reactions. I will do the same for Brannen. I was normally on the Cronin side of the fence each year even up to the time he left. But I also saw the value (for Cronin and UC) to part ways in the end. It was hard to see a F4 coming in the future even if he kept the team this year.

skyblade · 11-08-2019, 08:46 AM

The board used to have a meltdown after every loss. Justin is a little overboard, but some criticism is valid. Infinite positivity is almost as bad as the meltdowns.

Last year, the team looked like they would have won had Jarron played more minutes. They also played better in the second half.

This year, Jarron played the whole game, but wasn't as involved as we are used to. We lost the second half badly and even though it was close, a comeback seemed unlikely.

Brannen needs to be successful this year, because next year is going to be a down year - we will be very young. Cronin was given extra time because he walked into a mess. Brannen walked into a great team, but was unable to keep them all together.

He did have the opportunity to get replacements though and also kept 3 of the core 4. Even without Brooks, I am positive Cronin would have taken this team to the NCAA tournament (with Diarra/Nsoseme at center and a lot of isoball featuring Jarron). If we fail to make the NCAA tournament this year, I think it is very valid to question Brannen.

But for the first game of the season, it's too early. Like it was too early last after the OSU loss and many said we weren't an NCAA team.

We played a tough team and didn't look very good. But it's early in the season and we have plenty of room to improve. I'm waiting to see how we look when conference play starts before I make too many judgements.

Though I do think we need to start playing small ball. Our 7-footers (especially Sorolla) are not high-major level players.

cincrulz11 · 11-08-2019, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblade

Though I do think we need to start playing small ball. Our 7-footers (especially Sorolla) are not high-major level players.

I mean they did neutralize one of the best bigs in college basketball. Not bad for not being any good at all.

You thought he'd curb stomp them.

**waterhead** · 11-08-2019, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblade

The board used to have a meltdown after every loss. Justin is a little overboard, but some criticism is valid. Infinite positivity is almost as bad as the meltdowns.

Last year, the team looked like they would have won had Jarron played more minutes. They also played better in the second half.

This year, Jarron played the whole game, but wasn't as involved as we are used to. We lost the second half badly and even though it was close, a comeback seemed unlikely.

Brannen needs to be successful this year, because next year is going to be a down year - we will be very young. Cronin was given extra time because he walked into a mess. Brannen walked into a great team, but was unable to keep them all together.

He did have the opportunity to get replacements though and also kept 3 of the core 4. Even without Brooks, I am positive Cronin would have taken this team to the NCAA tournament (with Diarra/Nsoseme at center and a lot of isoball featuring Jarron). If we fail to make the NCAA tournament this year, I think it is very valid to question Brannen.

But for the first game of the season, it's too early. Like it was too early last after the OSU loss and many said we weren't an NCAA team.

We played a tough team and didn't look very good. But it's early in the season and we have plenty of room to improve. I'm waiting to see how we look when conference play starts before I make too many judgements.

Though I do think we need to start playing small ball. Our 7-footers (especially Sorolla) are not high-major level players.

I don't mind some valid objective criticism if it goes both ways. But this whole concept of Brannen needs to make things happen this year is a little short sighted. These are not his players but he needs to get something out of them. from what I have seen and heard I think he will do just fine. But if he doesn't make the dance...we still have to weigh the circumstances end of year. He has 30% of his offense installed so far. If he can add 10% (a new wrinkle) each game over the next 7...and win at the same time...we will probably be looking pretty good. I am expecting another bump in the road and meltdown on the board but if we are progressing and getting better it will just be a blip on the radar.

I have no allegiance to brannen other than him being coach and that I think supporting him (rather than criticizing him) is the best for our program for the short term. I had no specific allegiance to Cronin but I supported him. I was critical at times of course and I will be critical of Brannen but it's too early for being overly critical. Demanding he play Cumberland ISO ball is just silly. Hoping he can find better ways to utilize Cumberland is not silly. Suggesting Cumberland is our only hope is silly. Expecting JC2 and Mcneal to keep missing shots at this pace would be silly. Expecting Scott to play that poorly would be silly.

justinhub2003 · 11-08-2019, 09:16 AM

Who says I’m losing my mind?

I’m just pointing out what I saw.

And I’d love nothing more than John Brannen to win a championship at cincinnati. So stop with this BS about me almost wanting UC to fail so I could pounce. That’s not it at all. I can live every aspect of the game except the way Jarron was handled.

That’s it.

Jarron has been an impact player since day 1. His legacy deserves some respect around here. He was better then gary Clark, Jacob Evans and Kyle Washington in his tourney appearances. I want him to get national recognition.

I just don’t think he was featured like a preseason all American should have been.

That’s it.

For recruiting, we absolutely need to show we know how to manage elite talent

skyblade · 11-08-2019, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

I mean they did neutralize one of the best bigs in college basketball. Not bad for not being any good at all.

You thought he'd curb stomp them.

They didn't exactly neutralize him though. We doubled him on every touch in the post and then had Sorolla/Vogt follow him everywhere on defense. That left the lane open because our rim protector was standing at the three point line face guarding Wesson. Scott tried to take on the help defender/rim protector role that we didn't have a center filling, but he didn't do very well at it.

The center is generally a rim protector and last line of defense. If Vogt/Sorolla can be pulled away from the basket like they were against OSU, there are going to be a lot of driving lanes available against us on defense (not to mention, Vogt will continue to rack up the fouls). We will see against Drake, as every player they play can shoot threes.

**sedziobs** · 11-08-2019, 09:41 AM

I think our bigs are going to fit in very well on this team. We have completely overhauled our style of play, and we can't evaluate players on the old system. On offense we went from running iso sets and high ball screen sets to 5 out motion and pick-n-roll motion. On defense we went from switching man and double teaming the post to straight man and double teaming the corners. With the new system, we need bigs who can pass on the perimeter and stand ground in the paint without help. We often use our 5 at the top of the key to reverse the ball or hit a back door cut. Sorolla and Vogt seem much more suited to that role than Brooks. Scott seems very lost in the new system, but there's still a lot of time to learn it.

A big man at the 5 is important in the new system. Before watching any games I thought we would play a lot of small lineups, but after finally seeing Brannen's system in action, I would guess we'll almost always have a big on the floor. Unfortunately they're both very foul prone though.

Going forward with recruiting, we won't necessarily need an elite 5. We just need a big body who can pass. We went from a team modeled on the Blazers and Lakers to a team modeled on the Raptors and Celtics. We need Marc Gasol and Al Horford type centers rather than Hassan Whiteside and Dwight Howard. That's a major difference.

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11-08-2019, 08:16 AM	#203
waterhead Senior Moderator Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,298	Brannen's show was quite funny for his perceived deadpan personality. Of course Terry Nelson asking questions helps bring out the humor. Nelson asked you are very into analytics and metrics...how does your family feel about that...does that leak into the kitchen with percentages and stuff? Brannen said no I do not mention if the house is 70% clean or the food 40% cooked. Brannen also said a scout that has watched 38 different teams practice told him UC moves the ball better/faster than 37. brannen said it's not fast enough yet...we have to work on that. He talks a lot about a consistent message. The players need to know it's going to be the same message all the time no matter the subject.

11-08-2019, 08:46 AM	#205
skyblade Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,790	The board used to have a meltdown after every loss. Justin is a little overboard, but some criticism is valid. Infinite positivity is almost as bad as the meltdowns. Last year, the team looked like they would have won had Jarron played more minutes. They also played better in the second half. This year, Jarron played the whole game, but wasn't as involved as we are used to. We lost the second half badly and even though it was close, a comeback seemed unlikely. Brannen needs to be successful this year, because next year is going to be a down year - we will be very young. Cronin was given extra time because he walked into a mess. Brannen walked into a great team, but was unable to keep them all together. He did have the opportunity to get replacements though and also kept 3 of the core 4. Even without Brooks, I am positive Cronin would have taken this team to the NCAA tournament (with Diarra/Nsoseme at center and a lot of isoball featuring Jarron). If we fail to make the NCAA tournament this year, I think it is very valid to question Brannen. But for the first game of the season, it's too early. Like it was too early last after the OSU loss and many said we weren't an NCAA team. We played a tough team and didn't look very good. But it's early in the season and we have plenty of room to improve. I'm waiting to see how we look when conference play starts before I make too many judgements. Though I do think we need to start playing small ball. Our 7-footers (especially Sorolla) are not high-major level players.

11-08-2019, 09:16 AM	#208
justinhub2003 Epic Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 5,583	Who says I’m losing my mind? I’m just pointing out what I saw. And I’d love nothing more than John Brannen to win a championship at cincinnati. So stop with this BS about me almost wanting UC to fail so I could pounce. That’s not it at all. I can live every aspect of the game except the way Jarron was handled. That’s it. Jarron has been an impact player since day 1. His legacy deserves some respect around here. He was better then gary Clark, Jacob Evans and Kyle Washington in his tourney appearances. I want him to get national recognition. I just don’t think he was featured like a preseason all American should have been. That’s it. For recruiting, we absolutely need to show we know how to manage elite talent

11-08-2019, 09:41 AM	#210
sedziobs Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 2,395	I think our bigs are going to fit in very well on this team. We have completely overhauled our style of play, and we can't evaluate players on the old system. On offense we went from running iso sets and high ball screen sets to 5 out motion and pick-n-roll motion. On defense we went from switching man and double teaming the post to straight man and double teaming the corners. With the new system, we need bigs who can pass on the perimeter and stand ground in the paint without help. We often use our 5 at the top of the key to reverse the ball or hit a back door cut. Sorolla and Vogt seem much more suited to that role than Brooks. Scott seems very lost in the new system, but there's still a lot of time to learn it. A big man at the 5 is important in the new system. Before watching any games I thought we would play a lot of small lineups, but after finally seeing Brannen's system in action, I would guess we'll almost always have a big on the floor. Unfortunately they're both very foul prone though. Going forward with recruiting, we won't necessarily need an elite 5. We just need a big body who can pass. We went from a team modeled on the Blazers and Lakers to a team modeled on the Raptors and Celtics. We need Marc Gasol and Al Horford type centers rather than Hassan Whiteside and Dwight Howard. That's a major difference.