4 Super Conferences (BCT Original)

swg · 05-15-2010, 07:10 AM

Talk of expansion (and therefore contraction for some) brings worry for administrators, schools, and fans around the country. That is unless you're a member of the Big11 or SEC.

The question is where is the final destination? The Big11 doesn't seem content with only adding one, even if it's ND. Three could be added to the mix, or possibly going 'Super' and ending up at 16 total members. I do think ND (by way of the Big East forcing their hand) ends up in the Big11. Not by choice, but wanting to use the leverage they have currently, and not wanting to be the odd man out of a potential group of four conferences that parts from the NCAA, and goes its own way in terms of national championships.

If the SEC and Pac10 go along, and enlarge their own conferences to 16, the shockwaves to the Big East would be devasting. The SEC could take the pick of the litter from the Big12 and ACC, leaving those conferences in serious trouble. What happens to Kansas would be anyone's guess, but it could be left out of the 64 teams, forced to join a lesser conference. How would that sit in the new (true) March Madness with two 'champions'...one from the Super Conferences, and one from the 'NCAA others'.

The Pac10 could possibly add teams like Colorado, TCU, Utah, BYU, Boise St, Fresno St, Nevada, and KSU or Kansas. Problem with Colorado and the Kansas teams...distance in travel. Not overly attractive for the schools and fans.

With the Big11 and SEC picking off ACC/BigEast teams, that would leave member schools in the latter conferences joining together with the remnants, becoming the bottom of the four 'Supers'. Miami, Pitt, Clemson, VTech, and UC, and W. Virginia would be critical to have, as tv dollars for that conference would depend on top echelon teams and markets. Clemson could possibly go to the new SEC, same as FSU.

For BigEast teams like Gtown and St. Johns, you (like possibly Kansas) would again have teams that are left standing without a chair.
Also..what happens to Xavier? No football team means no chance of joining, as well as being hit financially as the big tv money will go to the 'Super' March Madness instead of the NCAA's.

Essentially, if the four Super Conferences becomes a reality, it spells the death of the conferences as we know it. Once powerful teams will find themselves on the outside, even if they have successful football programs. For those without a football team, they have little wiggle room but to scramble in the new world order. Either way, the days of counting on shared money from a large pool could be over for teams left out of the 'Super 4'.

One thought on regulations. If the Super 4 does occur, and completely divest themselves of the NCAA...who regulates them? Want to see a wild west of recruiting, see what happens when 64 teams don't have to adhere to NCAA standards, while some do...chaos? This btw..deserves its own story, but I can't fathom the implications, nor the legal portion of this topic.

Video killed the radio star, but greed is going to wipe out college athletics as we know and love.

swg · 05-15-2010, 07:21 AM

One note:

If the conferences are willing to go after teams, knowing that the poaching will negatively effect the remaining schools and conferences..why not go all the way in and do the above?
This may not occur, but you can see how the BigEast is reacting by forcing ND out. That, I think is a bad move, and could expedite their own downfall.

This whole move is a money grab, so why share revenues from bowls and the basketball tournament? Not doing so would appease the 'others', but congeniality amongst schools/conferences comes at a premium in the current state. I'd be surprised if this doesn't happen, as conferences have already sold their souls to the devil in regards to admissions, hiring flawed coaches (see Michigan, Indiana, USC, Kentucky), slaps on the wrist for criminal offenses by players, etc. So my question would be...why wouldn't they if they can?

This story is going out on twitter under: bctswg

JasonS · 05-15-2010, 03:39 PM

I don't think forcing out ND is a bad move. There is not another conference out there who will take ND without their football program. By forcing ND's hand, you essentially force them into the Big11. This may be enough to keep the Big11 from going crazy and adding 5 teams. If they get ND, I think they stop at 12 and eventually have a conference championship game.

The Big 12 is pretty pissed off at Nebraska and Missouri for even considering moving to the Big 11. It is not impossible to imagine the Big 12 making a premptive move and booting one of these schools in order to add TCU or go east and add a UC or UL to expand their television reach. I think this is unlikely (especially in regards to Nebraska) but not impossible.

I think the most realistic thing that will happen with the Big 11 is that they add 3 teams. I think Missouri will be one and I also think ND will be one. The third team is really the question. Could it be Georgia Tech to expand into the Atlanta market? Could it be Rutgers to get into NYC? Adding Pitt does little for the expansion of the Big 10 Network so I don't see that happening. Nebraska doesn't make much sense either in my opinion. They won't gain a lot in terms of television revenue and they really expand geographically for seemingly no (financial) reason. If Missouri goes to the Big 10, Nebraska makes a little more sense.

swg · 05-15-2010, 05:29 PM

Forcing ND into the Bigeast also helps the demise of the BigEast. That's why I think it's a bad move. It may not matter, but I also don't think it helps. Thus...why do it?

JasonS · 05-15-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swg

Forcing ND into the Bigeast also helps the demise of the BigEast. That's why I think it's a bad move. It may not matter, but I also don't think it helps. Thus...why do it?

If the Big East is going to force out ND and not do anything else, then I agree with you. But if the Big East is going to force out ND and make a run at BC, you do it in a heart beat. Of course, you better know that you can get BC before you do it.

swg · 05-15-2010, 06:08 PM

I think the ACC and BigEast are going to form a super conference with the teams that don't defect to the SEC or Big11. Therefore, why would BC leave? Now..this is premature, and I don't know if the super conferences will actually pull the trigger and leave the NCAA, but I don't see the downside for them in doing so.

Now, if that doesn't happen, and the BigE is still viable, I still don't see why BC would leave the ACC, but you never know.

JasonS · 05-15-2010, 06:14 PM

You may be right about BC but there have been rumblings that they have regretted the move to the ACC. What little bit of extra money they gained, they have spent transporting their athletic teams to away games and the conference tourney. There would be a geographical advantage to the Big East for them and jump start some of their more regionalized rivalries.

swg · 05-15-2010, 06:17 PM

BC wouldn't mind recruiting wise as they offer a lot of midwestern kids anyway. I think the merger would almost be necessary if the SEC goes big, they will take from the ACC.

swg · 05-15-2010, 06:30 PM

Just saw this...free article from Scout.

But let’s go beyond simply the Big Ten adding whatever number of teams. Let’s assume they go to 16, and then the SEC goes to 16, and the domino effect continues until there are either four or five super-conferences of 16 teams each. Let’s go even further and assume that these super-conferences then decide to bail on the NCAA and form their own organization, shutting out all of the “little guys”. Wow, we’ve really stumbled on some super-evil stuff now, right? Right?

…

Well, actually, no. Oh sure, it would suck for the many programs left out of the brave new world, but lest we forget, colleges aren’t people. They aren’t owed equal treatment, money, opportunity or anything like that. If Michigan is a better school than Eastern Michigan, then it’s normal, natural and fair for them to get more state funding, more students, and to generally be given preferential treatment in education. EMU may feel bad about it, but the public good is served, especially if more money to Michigan helps them add more students who would otherwise end up at EMU, thus greatly helping those students.

The same sort of thing is true for college sports. If consolidation of the college sports powers leads to more good regular season games and fewer bodybag blowouts, that’s overall a win for the public, not a loss, even if the people at EMU aren’t happy. And while we’re at it, those small schools left behind would finally have a realistic shot at a national championship against schools that are actually on their level. There are worse things for Troy than to win national titles at a new 1-A compared to being irrelevant at the current 1-A, which is where they are right now.

And, of course, such a move could well lead to a college football playoff, something that the bulk of fans would like, another win for the public. Once you cut down the number of teams and the number of conferences, suddenly a 4 or 8 team playoff becomes doable. There’s no guarantee that it would happen, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to run a playoff out of 5 leagues and 80 teams (or 4 / 64) than it is to run it with 10 leagues

swg · 05-16-2010, 07:01 AM

@CFBRumorCentral Even if it goes to 16 teams, it doesn't look as if the Pac-10 wants anything to do with BYU.

05-15-2010, 07:10 AM	#1
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	4 Super Conferences (BCT Original) Talk of expansion (and therefore contraction for some) brings worry for administrators, schools, and fans around the country. That is unless you're a member of the Big11 or SEC. The question is where is the final destination? The Big11 doesn't seem content with only adding one, even if it's ND. Three could be added to the mix, or possibly going 'Super' and ending up at 16 total members. I do think ND (by way of the Big East forcing their hand) ends up in the Big11. Not by choice, but wanting to use the leverage they have currently, and not wanting to be the odd man out of a potential group of four conferences that parts from the NCAA, and goes its own way in terms of national championships. If the SEC and Pac10 go along, and enlarge their own conferences to 16, the shockwaves to the Big East would be devasting. The SEC could take the pick of the litter from the Big12 and ACC, leaving those conferences in serious trouble. What happens to Kansas would be anyone's guess, but it could be left out of the 64 teams, forced to join a lesser conference. How would that sit in the new (true) March Madness with two 'champions'...one from the Super Conferences, and one from the 'NCAA others'. The Pac10 could possibly add teams like Colorado, TCU, Utah, BYU, Boise St, Fresno St, Nevada, and KSU or Kansas. Problem with Colorado and the Kansas teams...distance in travel. Not overly attractive for the schools and fans. With the Big11 and SEC picking off ACC/BigEast teams, that would leave member schools in the latter conferences joining together with the remnants, becoming the bottom of the four 'Supers'. Miami, Pitt, Clemson, VTech, and UC, and W. Virginia would be critical to have, as tv dollars for that conference would depend on top echelon teams and markets. Clemson could possibly go to the new SEC, same as FSU. For BigEast teams like Gtown and St. Johns, you (like possibly Kansas) would again have teams that are left standing without a chair. Also..what happens to Xavier? No football team means no chance of joining, as well as being hit financially as the big tv money will go to the 'Super' March Madness instead of the NCAA's. Essentially, if the four Super Conferences becomes a reality, it spells the death of the conferences as we know it. Once powerful teams will find themselves on the outside, even if they have successful football programs. For those without a football team, they have little wiggle room but to scramble in the new world order. Either way, the days of counting on shared money from a large pool could be over for teams left out of the 'Super 4'. One thought on regulations. If the Super 4 does occur, and completely divest themselves of the NCAA...who regulates them? Want to see a wild west of recruiting, see what happens when 64 teams don't have to adhere to NCAA standards, while some do...chaos? This btw..deserves its own story, but I can't fathom the implications, nor the legal portion of this topic. Video killed the radio star, but greed is going to wipe out college athletics as we know and love.

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05-15-2010, 07:21 AM	#2
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	One note: If the conferences are willing to go after teams, knowing that the poaching will negatively effect the remaining schools and conferences..why not go all the way in and do the above? This may not occur, but you can see how the BigEast is reacting by forcing ND out. That, I think is a bad move, and could expedite their own downfall. This whole move is a money grab, so why share revenues from bowls and the basketball tournament? Not doing so would appease the 'others', but congeniality amongst schools/conferences comes at a premium in the current state. I'd be surprised if this doesn't happen, as conferences have already sold their souls to the devil in regards to admissions, hiring flawed coaches (see Michigan, Indiana, USC, Kentucky), slaps on the wrist for criminal offenses by players, etc. So my question would be...why wouldn't they if they can? This story is going out on twitter under: bctswg

05-15-2010, 03:39 PM	#3
JasonS Football Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 5,181	I don't think forcing out ND is a bad move. There is not another conference out there who will take ND without their football program. By forcing ND's hand, you essentially force them into the Big11. This may be enough to keep the Big11 from going crazy and adding 5 teams. If they get ND, I think they stop at 12 and eventually have a conference championship game. The Big 12 is pretty pissed off at Nebraska and Missouri for even considering moving to the Big 11. It is not impossible to imagine the Big 12 making a premptive move and booting one of these schools in order to add TCU or go east and add a UC or UL to expand their television reach. I think this is unlikely (especially in regards to Nebraska) but not impossible. I think the most realistic thing that will happen with the Big 11 is that they add 3 teams. I think Missouri will be one and I also think ND will be one. The third team is really the question. Could it be Georgia Tech to expand into the Atlanta market? Could it be Rutgers to get into NYC? Adding Pitt does little for the expansion of the Big 10 Network so I don't see that happening. Nebraska doesn't make much sense either in my opinion. They won't gain a lot in terms of television revenue and they really expand geographically for seemingly no (financial) reason. If Missouri goes to the Big 10, Nebraska makes a little more sense.

05-15-2010, 05:29 PM	#4
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	Forcing ND into the Bigeast also helps the demise of the BigEast. That's why I think it's a bad move. It may not matter, but I also don't think it helps. Thus...why do it?

05-15-2010, 06:08 PM	#6
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	I think the ACC and BigEast are going to form a super conference with the teams that don't defect to the SEC or Big11. Therefore, why would BC leave? Now..this is premature, and I don't know if the super conferences will actually pull the trigger and leave the NCAA, but I don't see the downside for them in doing so. Now, if that doesn't happen, and the BigE is still viable, I still don't see why BC would leave the ACC, but you never know.

05-15-2010, 06:14 PM	#7
JasonS Football Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 5,181	You may be right about BC but there have been rumblings that they have regretted the move to the ACC. What little bit of extra money they gained, they have spent transporting their athletic teams to away games and the conference tourney. There would be a geographical advantage to the Big East for them and jump start some of their more regionalized rivalries.

05-15-2010, 06:17 PM	#8
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	BC wouldn't mind recruiting wise as they offer a lot of midwestern kids anyway. I think the merger would almost be necessary if the SEC goes big, they will take from the ACC.

05-15-2010, 06:30 PM	#9
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	Just saw this...free article from Scout. But let’s go beyond simply the Big Ten adding whatever number of teams. Let’s assume they go to 16, and then the SEC goes to 16, and the domino effect continues until there are either four or five super-conferences of 16 teams each. Let’s go even further and assume that these super-conferences then decide to bail on the NCAA and form their own organization, shutting out all of the “little guys”. Wow, we’ve really stumbled on some super-evil stuff now, right? Right? … Well, actually, no. Oh sure, it would suck for the many programs left out of the brave new world, but lest we forget, colleges aren’t people. They aren’t owed equal treatment, money, opportunity or anything like that. If Michigan is a better school than Eastern Michigan, then it’s normal, natural and fair for them to get more state funding, more students, and to generally be given preferential treatment in education. EMU may feel bad about it, but the public good is served, especially if more money to Michigan helps them add more students who would otherwise end up at EMU, thus greatly helping those students. The same sort of thing is true for college sports. If consolidation of the college sports powers leads to more good regular season games and fewer bodybag blowouts, that’s overall a win for the public, not a loss, even if the people at EMU aren’t happy. And while we’re at it, those small schools left behind would finally have a realistic shot at a national championship against schools that are actually on their level. There are worse things for Troy than to win national titles at a new 1-A compared to being irrelevant at the current 1-A, which is where they are right now. And, of course, such a move could well lead to a college football playoff, something that the bulk of fans would like, another win for the public. Once you cut down the number of teams and the number of conferences, suddenly a 4 or 8 team playoff becomes doable. There’s no guarantee that it would happen, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to run a playoff out of 5 leagues and 80 teams (or 4 / 64) than it is to run it with 10 leagues

05-16-2010, 07:01 AM	#10
swg Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,155	@CFBRumorCentral Even if it goes to 16 teams, it doesn't look as if the Pac-10 wants anything to do with BYU.