upstate game thread

[Patrick Bateman]

At the football games, what is there to keep you entertained at halftime and timeouts? Concessions are the same at Nippert, maybe a few more beer selections but that is about it.

Again these are not the main issues.

[L-T]

Originally Posted by waterhead

You took the words right out of my mouth.

The fans just have not gotten excited enough about the program yet. We need to be back in the final 4 or get in the top 10. If we start the season with a high ranking even the early season patsies will sell out (or at least come close). All this BS about the Shoe and parking and Clifton and schedule etc...NONE of them are difference makers. They might keep a few butts out of the seats but someone will pick those up if we have a red hot team. The difference maker is getting this team back into the Contender category rather than the Pretender category when it comes to NCAA tourney chances.

Bingo! Couldn't have said it better myself. And guess what, you're not going to get a high ranking until you start beating someone decent or your program commands it based on its year over year results. The crappy Shoe has always been crappy. Clifton is much nicer now than it was in the 90s. Parking is better now. We had one or two seasons where every game was a sellout and almost never averaged under 12,000 fans per year. In Huggins last year (when everyone on here said attendance was seriously in decline), we ranked 27th in the the country in average attendance at 11,304 per game. Even in 2002/2003 with a 17-12 record we averaged 12,182 per game (25th nationally)....same old crappy Shoe, crappy clifton, crappy parking.

This site loves to make excuses for Mick. As we saw a month or so ago, Louiville has dropped us from future schedules. Here is the quote from Rick Pitino.

“Mick’s a very close friend and ex-colleague of mine, but Memphis asked first,” Pitino said earlier this week. “Had Mick asked first it would have been him on the schedule rather than Memphis, but Memphis asked first.”

Looks like Mick really isn't begging hard enough does it? Even with a natural, long-time rival such as Louisville, we are now not even going to play them anymore because Mick wasn't proactive. We'd rather go aggressively after Southeast New Hampshire Downstate I guess.

[JasonS]

Originally Posted by TheLivingLegend

^^^
The above debate has been going on for years... There are several factors.
- The Shoe... Most dont want to watch games there
- Ticket Price... Lower section, even chair back sections are expensive.
- Competition...
- Clifton... Who wants to be in clifton? While the campus is decent, parking, and surrounding area is awful.
- Sad, but true... post Huggins.. was a rough couple of years. The tweener fans left.

I agree with the Shoe being a deterrent. When I am looking for tickets, if I can't get tickets in the lower bowl, I typically don't go. My 4 year old loves going but she gets bored if she is too far away from the court and unable to see the game or Bearcat.

The ticket prices are not an issue IMO. You can get tickets in the lower bowl for $35 each plus $3 for tickets by email. $38 for a ticket that close to the action is a deal. By contrast, thanks to Ticketmaster, tickets in the same spot at US Bank is $47 plus $12.75 "inconvenience charge." People should be grateful that UC games are so affordable and family friendly (your kids are free if under 4 and sitting on your lap). I live in Columbus and it is not that way at Ohio State games. I never go to them as I hate OSU but I hear plenty of complaining about $75 football tickets for the last row in the stadium against all the BS teams they play out of conference. Basketball isn't much better. You aren't sitting in the lower bowl for cheaper than about $50. I agree that the value at the Shoe in the rows in the upper deck above the chair back seats (really outside of about the first 10-12 rows) is terrible only because the view is awful. Outside of that, I think UC does a great job of giving value.

One thing that is intriguing me about attendance is that we never hear about paid attendance. I have been looking online for tickets lately, and it is really difficult to find lower bowl tickets for pretty much all the home games. Then I watch the game last night and there are empty seats everywhere. It seems to me that people are buying tickets but not showing up to the games. I'd like to see a break down between tickets purchased and actual attendance. I bet it is significantly different, at least in the lower sections.

[L-T]

Originally Posted by JasonS

I agree with the Shoe being a deterrent. When I am looking for tickets, if I can't get tickets in the lower bowl, I typically don't go. My 4 year old loves going but she gets bored if she is too far away from the court and unable to see the game or Bearcat.

The ticket prices are not an issue IMO. You can get tickets in the lower bowl for $35 each plus $3 for tickets by email. $38 for a ticket that close to the action is a deal. By contrast, thanks to Ticketmaster, tickets in the same spot at US Bank is $47 plus $12.75 "inconvenience charge." People should be grateful that UC games are so affordable and family friendly (your kids are free if under 4 and sitting on your lap). I live in Columbus and it is not that way at Ohio State games. I never go to them as I hate OSU but I hear plenty of complaining about $75 football tickets for the last row in the stadium against all the BS teams they play out of conference. Basketball isn't much better. You aren't sitting in the lower bowl for cheaper than about $50. I agree that the value at the Shoe in the rows in the upper deck above the chair back seats (really outside of about the first 10-12 rows) is terrible only because the view is awful. Outside of that, I think UC does a great job of giving value.

One thing that is intriguing me about attendance is that we never hear about paid attendance. I have been looking online for tickets lately, and it is really difficult to find lower bowl tickets for pretty much all the home games. Then I watch the game last night and there are empty seats everywhere. It seems to me that people are buying tickets but not showing up to the games. I'd like to see a break down between tickets purchased and actual attendance. I bet it is significantly different, at least in the lower sections.

The city and our fans have proven they will show up and attend games at the miserable Shoe when the program is relevent nationally and interesting enough for them to spend their money. Scheduling is a big part of that equation. It is the head coach's job to get us to that point. He obviously hasn't accomplished that in seven and a half years.

In his year's here, Cronin hasn't even outdrawn the Andy Kennedy team a single time. Kennedy averaged 9,300 fans a game in the year following the Nancy Zimpher debacle when the program was in meltdown. He hasn't outdrawn Xavier in a single year, and that fact is really sad...even though the Cintas Center capacity is 3,000 less than the Shoe.....and all of this in spite of playing in the Big East.

I can see scheduling softer in the OOC while playing in the Big East, but we certainly don't have to go all the way to the bottom of the barrel to schedule. Bearcat NTS posted some absolute bogus schedule strength numbers in an earlier post. Kenpom today has our schedule strength at 348 out of 351 D1 teams. I refuse to believe that mid-majors right in our own backyard won't play us....teams that would greatly upgrade how our schedule would appeal to potential fans. Even Northern Kentucky is ranked higher than a number of the cupcakes on our schedule. Why not Dayton, Miami, Saint louis, Indiana St., Ohio U., Toledo, Wright St., Akron, Kent St., Morehead St., Western Ky., Eastern Ky., Evansville, Youngstown St., Cleveland St., Marshall, Bowling Green, Miami, and obviously Northern Ky.? All these programs are way more appealing to the eye than UMASS Lowell, Campbell, USC Upstate, etc. and still provide pretty much a guaranteed win and a serious upgrade to our schedule strength, plus they are all close enough to bring fans with them.

[CaptDale]

Anybody notice that last night was the first time we faced a big in the paint? Buchannon is 6'11"/250. Had he not fouled out, he was giving JJ and TR fits on the boards. He's just a freshman, too. Had seven boards and 2 blocks in 16 minutes till he fouled out. Wait until we face Kirk on Sat. He's averaging 21pts/12rbs/4blks. Hope Mick has a plan.

[Scheids21]

http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lances...ticle=11879522

Here is Lance's take on what the program needs to do to up attendance. LT, Lance touches on scheduling local teams rather than the nobodies. He has some good ideas actually, and its an interesting read.

[JackBauer151]

I think LT makes a good point in half of his argument and shits the bed in the other half. There is no doubt that UC has lost the "Casual" fan. Coach Tuberville talked about getting more "Walk on" fans as in those who are not UC students or Alumni. This obviously applies to basketball as well. LT's point that the cupcakes hurt this effort is undeniably true. I am as big as UC basketball fan as they come and sometimes I even think to myself, "Do I actually want to leave the house on Tuesday night to see UC dismantle a team Ive never heard of in 20 degree weather and try to find a decent parking spot?" Im sure I'm not the only one. The point is the fan experience is just bad at the shoe. Lance had some really great ideas on his blog and I think many of them would go a long way to put more butts in the seats. However you have to be playing some people with some sort of name recognition that gives people a reason to go in the first place. Local teams are a great place to start. I know many people who are the casual fan that live in Hyde Park and go to Xavier games all the time simply because they view it as a social event. Definitely not a social event at the shoe. UC needs to somehow make this a part of the marketing plan. Where I disagree with LT is his ignoring the facts. To compare Mick to AK is disingenuous and stupid. That year was all about supporting the team that lost Huggins. Money, Tv, and other schools agenda's all play a role in this. If you actually believe Mick hasnt called all the big boys to try and get a game you are crazy. Mick wants to elevate his program to that top 15 status annually. You do this by playing and beating other teams perceived to be in that category. But, they have to say yes. The tv schedule has to work out. OSU will never come to the Shoe. Never, no matter how many times we call. They are just protecting their program. So to blame Mick for big name schools not coming in (Let us not forget New Mexico, NC State, and Michigan all on the schedule) is ignoring what the reality of the situation is. The more we win the more acceptable it is to lose to us in our gym. That's why the schedule keeps getting better. It will continue to do so if we keep the upward trend. So should we be playing better mid majors with better name recognition? Absolutely. Is it Mick Cronin's fault we can not get a large number of high majors in our gym for the OOC schedule? Absolutely not. Mick has quite a few things that he needs to do better to get this program back to that elite level but not scheduling people who wont play him is not one of them.

[Nomadic1]

I wish we could go a couple of months without the same stupid conversation about attendance.
We have an ugly building that wasn't intended as a basketball arena.
We are in a pro sports town full of old fogeys, who don't like change.
We had a few down years and are still recovering.

Just let it go... Most kids don't know UC used to be good at basketball anymore. We're making progress under Mick and with repeated trips to the NCAA, we'll keep pulling more in.

[Nomadic1]

Originally Posted by CaptDale

Anybody notice that last night was the first time we faced a big in the paint? Buchannon is 6'11"/250. Had he not fouled out, he was giving JJ and TR fits on the boards. He's just a freshman, too. Had seven boards and 2 blocks in 16 minutes till he fouled out. Wait until we face Kirk on Sat. He's averaging 21pts/12rbs/4blks. Hope Mick has a plan.

... His two blocks were against shorter opponents. As for his boards, he's a space eater. To be expected. As far as New Mexico goes, they just survived UAB. They're not the team we faced last year.

[charlie hustle]

Originally Posted by #BearcatNation

I blame Ticketmaster. I bought my tickets the minute they went on sale, and it didn't ask me "UC side" or "Xavier side". I just hit best available, and wound up with two tix on the Xavier side. Didn't know it till after I got them. Boy is this going to be awkward.

contact ticketmaster!
the same thing happened to me but i called them and explained the rivalry to the chick on the phone.
it took her a while to fix, but she was able to put me in UC's section.

and NOW they have the UC/x option.