Go Back   BearcatTalk.com > Cincinnati Basketball > Bearcat Basketball

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2020, 08:37 AM   #371
cincrulz11
Epic Member
 
cincrulz11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,329
cincrulz11 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyalum2014 View Post
Agreed, Brooks was a huge hit and its very apparent we need a rim protector like Brooks, Vogt just isn't it and I don't think he ever will be in terms of a significant rebounder or rim protector. Now that teams have figured out how to guard him in conference Vogt has shown why he was a bench player last year. He played great against lower level non conference teams but has been kind of bullied in most of conference play..... But right now he's all we have so it is what it is
Vogt has to play too much. Brooks only had to play 56% of the minutes. Vogt is at 70% and 73% in conference.


Thats just way too much to ask out of a big slow guy like Vogt. Vogt has only looked really bad the past 2 games. The others he wasn't getting the ball, these last 2 he's missed all his shots (of course houston and wichita st are 2 of the best paint defenders in the country).


Also Vogt is not a bad rim protector. His 5.8 block rate isn't what Brooks was, but its in line with Washington and Ellis. Gary Clark wasn't a center but I'm sure we all remember him getting blocks. He never had a blockrate of 5.8.

In terms of blockrate only 2 guys are clearly better and thats Brooks and Justin Jackson. Vogt holds his own when he's down in the paint.
cincrulz11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:04 AM   #372
cincyguy13
Epic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,633
cincyguy13 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinhub2003 View Post
Man if giving up on guys In the first year is what everyone did, well we shoulda ran Keith Williams outta here.

He was trash his first year and was outplayed by Trevor Moore.

And because both Davenport and Harvey barely contribute and play like 5 min a game, we should probably kick them off the team.
I’m not giving up on these guys. We are talking about being productive and helping the team this year. Curtis would not have done that. Harvey actually looking good lately

Last edited by cincyguy13; 03-03-2020 at 09:07 AM.
cincyguy13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:12 AM   #373
cincyguy13
Epic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,633
cincyguy13 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cincrulz11 View Post
Vogt has to play too much. Brooks only had to play 56% of the minutes. Vogt is at 70% and 73% in conference.


Thats just way too much to ask out of a big slow guy like Vogt. Vogt has only looked really bad the past 2 games. The others he wasn't getting the ball, these last 2 he's missed all his shots (of course houston and wichita st are 2 of the best paint defenders in the country).


Also Vogt is not a bad rim protector. His 5.8 block rate isn't what Brooks was, but its in line with Washington and Ellis. Gary Clark wasn't a center but I'm sure we all remember him getting blocks. He never had a blockrate of 5.8.

In terms of blockrate only 2 guys are clearly better and thats Brooks and Justin Jackson. Vogt holds his own when he's down in the paint.
I still think Vogt can be a good piece. The thing is we are asking him to play 30+ minutes a game. He isn’t that type of player. He’d be a great piece to bring off the bench and get 15 minutes a game. In a perfect world. Thing is we have 3-4 of these types. Tre would be better if he wasn’t asked to much.
cincyguy13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:14 AM   #374
cincyguy13
Epic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,633
cincyguy13 is on a distinguished road
I think Curtis could have been a decent 4 year guy but he wasn’t gonna be a jarron or Jacob or gary. Those guys came I and we’re good from the jump
cincyguy13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:18 AM   #375
cincrulz11
Epic Member
 
cincrulz11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,329
cincrulz11 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyguy13 View Post
I still think Vogt can be a good piece. The thing is we are asking him to play 30+ minutes a game. He isn’t that type of player. He’d be a great piece to bring off the bench and get 15 minutes a game. In a perfect world. Thing is we have 3-4 of these types. Tre would be better if he wasn’t asked to much.
Vogt's play went down after Sorolla left. I wonder if he's more passive cause he knows he can't pick up any fouls.


Whatever it is I dont think any coach or fan wants to see Vogt playing 30+ every night.


Vogt and Diarra have both seen their defensive rounding % go way down in conference. Diarra hasn't grabbed one in his last 3 games (33 minutes worth).
cincrulz11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:20 AM   #376
cincyguy13
Epic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,633
cincyguy13 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cincrulz11 View Post
Vogt's play went down after Sorolla left. I wonder if he's more passive cause he knows he can't pick up any fouls.


Whatever it is I dont think any coach or fan wants to see Vogt playing 30+ every night.


Vogt and Diarra have both seen their defensive rounding % go way down in conference. Diarra hasn't grabbed one in his last 3 games (33 minutes worth).
That’s honestly surprising. I thought we were told he was an elite rebounder.
cincyguy13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:24 AM   #377
waterhead
Senior Moderator
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
waterhead is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblade View Post
I don't think anyone thought Cronin was perfect. Playing zone constantly meant we were going to give up a relatively high percent of offensive rebounds. Now we play man-to-man and are about the same.

I wouldn't even be that concerned about the offensive rebounding, if it weren't a symptom of a bigger problem that we've been seeing for the last month or so. Lack of effort, focus and intensity.

That's the problem. We've rarely seen a Cronin/Huggins coached looked as uninterested in playing hard in a single game as our current team has looked for the last month.
A lot of people are comparing Brannen with Cronin and even Huggs. But Brannen has a completely different style of coaching like it or not. We know he is going to let guys play through mistakes more often rather than pulling players at the first sign of mistakes. We know he's not going to act like a maniac on the sidelines. We know he's going to recruit skills over athleticism unless he can get both.

He wants to sub offense off the bench not D. Cronin could sub D with guys who had no skill on offense but could come in and do the rest. Brannen's system doesn't work without the skills and shooting. Cronin's system could still work if he subbed low skill and high athleticism.

We can't make these comparisons because the systems are apples and oranges. We are going to have to sit back and see if Brannen can make things work for his system as he gets more and more of his recruits. This won't happen overnight. It's a shame we couldn't have a better season but it's not a death sentence.

We have to relax and hope we got our man. He's a very smart man with a different approach. We will build an identity and it won't be the same as year's past but that's fine with me. I give the guy 3 years to show he's headed in the right direction and the 4th year will be my decision year providing it doesn't go off the rails before that.
waterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:32 AM   #378
waterhead
Senior Moderator
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
waterhead is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cincrulz11 View Post
Vogt's play went down after Sorolla left. I wonder if he's more passive cause he knows he can't pick up any fouls.


Whatever it is I dont think any coach or fan wants to see Vogt playing 30+ every night.


Vogt and Diarra have both seen their defensive rounding % go way down in conference. Diarra hasn't grabbed one in his last 3 games (33 minutes worth).
After Sorolla left there were games where coach had a decision to play Diara or Davenport. I am quite sure Vogt was asked to stay out of foul trouble even before Sorolla left.

I agree...he's not a 30+ minute guy in an ideal situation. We need him to be able to be somewhat aggressive and that would be better in a 25 minute scenario. But our options are limited. Vogt knows the system and Diara was still learning over half way through the season (and probably still is) and Davenport is not the answer. He was already being phased out until Sorolla left. He will be better in year 3 and 4.
waterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:34 AM   #379
cincrulz11
Epic Member
 
cincrulz11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,329
cincrulz11 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
After Sorolla left there were games where coach had a decision to play Diara or Davenport. I am quite sure Vogt was asked to stay out of foul trouble even before Sorolla left.

I agree...he's not a 30+ minute guy in an ideal situation. We need him to be able to be somewhat aggressive and that would be better in a 25 minute scenario. But our options are limited. Vogt knows the system and Diara was still learning over half way through the season (and probably still is) and Davenport is not the answer. He was already being phased out until Sorolla left. He will be better in year 3 and 4.
And Davenport is injured and not playing now anyway
cincrulz11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:39 AM   #380
waterhead
Senior Moderator
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
waterhead is on a distinguished road
I also get a kick out of the fans claiming the NCAA tourney is largely random in results. That randomness should have resulted in just as many over achieving teams as the opposite. Having one of the longest streaks in the nation in making the dance...you would expect UC to have benefited from randomness at some point.

Even if we were under seeded or our opponent was under seeded...randomness should have seen us defying odds in a good way just as often as we have in a bad way.
waterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., - All material on this Cincinnati Bearcat discussion forum is strictly for entertainment purposes only. This site and any pages within are in no way affiliated with the University of Cincinnati. Any images, copyrights, or trademarks used on this site are used under the "Fair Use Provision" of the Copyright Act for purposes of comment, criticism, and news reporting.