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Old 09-09-2019, 02:47 PM   #71
waterhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblade View Post
Does anyone think we would have recruited Mason if not for Gabe?

Does anyone think we needed another young PG/SG? In 2020 we already have MAW (PG/SG), Saunders (PG), Harvey (PG/SG) and Gabe (SG/SF) as freshmen/sophomores. Where will Mason find minutes in the next few years?

Cronin generally offered big men 300-400 rated bigs (harder to get) and at positions where we didn't already have a ton of depth. If Mason was 6'8"+ I'd have no problem with him at his rating.

But the low rating, plus him playing a position where we already have plenty of young depth, screams that he's only here because of Gabe.

As for those saying it's just the 13th scholarship. It is, but now we have locked it in. Our last 2 scholarships pretty much need to be used on a pair of PF/C's for 2020 (unless Davenport is going to be the backup PF). The 13th scholarship could have been saved to be used on a grad transfer depending on our needs, such as one of the young likely 2020 starters (Prince at PF and MAW at PG) not developing quickly enough or getting injured. Instead we used it on a 300+ rated guy, who is likely going to be the third string PG for the next 3 years.
I would highly doubt he would be here if it were not for Gabe but that has little to do with whether or not he can provide value for us. He's at least a mid major talent with a gym rat work ethic so who knows who he can pass up on the roster if he works harder than others. Hell, I think he may be better than T. Moore right now (if Trevor continues to shoot at 30% in games). It should not be hard for anyone to match those numbers plus you are adding a ball handler and Moore is not.

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Old 09-09-2019, 03:38 PM   #72
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I suspect Mason will become as good a point guard as several guys we've had starting at UC, including recently. It might take him a while, but that depends on how others develop too. He's going to fit into Brannen's system likely better as a shooter, so it might be a new-look Bearcats for us. He might actually turn out to be a good two guard outside decoy just because he could be a drive and dish guy.

I think people are calling out this discussion as very extreme, when it's not. To say a recruit is a risk isn't the same thing as saying they shouldn't have been recruited. It's acknowledging what might become a pitfall. No one said Brannen shouldn't have recruited Harvey or Gabe. We said they were players that carry risk, because they do. That's okay more often that not.

And yeah, you can push that to say all players do, but a storyline with those two guys rises up to the lead paragraph when talking about them, which is really all you need to know. It might be the end of the discussion, but not saying anything is just having blinders on.

It's not even a harsh criticism on Brannen to point it out, because I'm sure he would recognize it too. Cronin also needed to take risk guys like Stephenson, who brought such an odd media circus for college, but I'm guessing that it bothered him that it was the route he had to take.

And to those justifying Mason's spot by pointing out how many low-level recruits Cronin brought in...well I thought little of Cronin's recruiting in recent years and I'm guessing fans just learned to live with it. But to his credit he always seemed to develop enough upperclassmen to play his system of slow ball that he found ways to win games. But most of those lower recruits were largely forgettable. Sprinkle in some fortunate diamonds in the rough and there's UC in past 13 years. Successful, but frustrating all too often.

Excited to see if Mason can make use eat our words about counting him out.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:06 PM   #73
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Yea, exactly, all players carry risk and these two don't pose any more risk than any other players that have been recruited. Hell, one of Skyblade's reasons was that they could turn into stars and leave for a bigger program. Say that out loud, maybe you'll then realize how ridiculous the statement is.

The risk of bringing in Stephenson and the Madsen twins are not even comparable. And I was fine with bringing in Lance, but they aren't in the same ballpark of risks.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:31 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirthought View Post
I suspect Mason will become as good a point guard as several guys we've had starting at UC, including recently. It might take him a while, but that depends on how others develop too. He's going to fit into Brannen's system likely better as a shooter, so it might be a new-look Bearcats for us. He might actually turn out to be a good two guard outside decoy just because he could be a drive and dish guy.

I think people are calling out this discussion as very extreme, when it's not. To say a recruit is a risk isn't the same thing as saying they shouldn't have been recruited. It's acknowledging what might become a pitfall. No one said Brannen shouldn't have recruited Harvey or Gabe. We said they were players that carry risk, because they do. That's okay more often that not.

And yeah, you can push that to say all players do, but a storyline with those two guys rises up to the lead paragraph when talking about them, which is really all you need to know. It might be the end of the discussion, but not saying anything is just having blinders on.

It's not even a harsh criticism on Brannen to point it out, because I'm sure he would recognize it too. Cronin also needed to take risk guys like Stephenson, who brought such an odd media circus for college, but I'm guessing that it bothered him that it was the route he had to take.

And to those justifying Mason's spot by pointing out how many low-level recruits Cronin brought in...well I thought little of Cronin's recruiting in recent years and I'm guessing fans just learned to live with it. But to his credit he always seemed to develop enough upperclassmen to play his system of slow ball that he found ways to win games. But most of those lower recruits were largely forgettable. Sprinkle in some fortunate diamonds in the rough and there's UC in past 13 years. Successful, but frustrating all too often.

Excited to see if Mason can make use eat our words about counting him out.
Along with any risk of landing a recruit you also have to weigh the risk of not landing them which some people seem to want to ignore. You need to factor any reward side with any risk. SCrubb is a guy that will be a bonus recruit if he's still around and wants to come here but we can't count on him. We didn't get Leal or Galloway as expected. We were still looking at Madsen and Gordon (not sure who else was a reasonable shot on the wing). And Brannen likes to get things done in the early period per CJB.

It sure seemed like Brannen thought Madsen could/would have a much bigger impact on the floor. Not to mention the intangibles like work ethic and attitude that you have to factor in for team reasons. Brannen may have looked at Madsen as more of a 4 star talent and like any coach likes to see work ethic etc. Gabe and Mason both checked off many of those boxes. Mason was well aware of who we already had recruited at his spot(s). He was not afraid to mix it up and let the chips fall where they may. They both had full knowledge of the situation as well so did their entire family. If either or happens to want to back out someday it will likely be solely on them and not on Brannen. That discussion of what happens if Mason can't get off the bench was probably had between the family and they still decided to stay together and play for a great program. It doesn't even sound like they batted an eye. And again...I think Mason's attitude of wanting to earn his PT is a testament to their confidence and work ethic.

In terms of recruiting for style of play I think Brannen likes ball handlers and shooters and I think Mason can do both of those so he fits the system and I am sure he can play spot minutes or specific roles as we go and with a great work ethic can maybe even do more than that at some point.

CJB weighed the risk reward and decided the Madsens were either the better choice or he didn't want to risk missing on them and Gordon. Take the commit when you can get it or you might get shut out on your top targets kind of thing.

Last edited by waterhead; 09-10-2019 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:10 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblade View Post
Like many others, you resort to calling things stupid and attacking me because your arguments hold no weight. I started posting more on this forum to stay away from this type of angry, defensive, substance-less post.

In terms of their recruitment, Harvey and Gabe each had something that prevented a number of schools from recruiting them (Harvey - legal issues, Gabe - only wanted to play with schools that also recruited his twin). These are things that quite a few schools saw and made them pass. Gabe is initially a higher risk because we had to spend a scholarship on Mason, who plays a position we don't need depth at (and I don't think anyone thinks we would have recruited Mason without Gabe).

Most players choose their favorite school and their decision to stay is only up to themselves. We don't know how much Mason would influence Gabe's decision. But there is the possibility that if Mason leaves due to lack of playing time, Gabe would also leave. That makes the risk of Gabe leaving higher than if we just had Gabe.

As for Harvey, you think Harvey is no higher risk? Than why do you think so many schools passed on him? Even Brannen said that Harvey understands he can't make another mistake.

Where did I saw I don't like Harvey? I said I don't mind taking risks here and there. I'm happy with Harvey. I can be happy with him, while still acknowledging we got him because we were willing to gamble a little. Gabe I think looks great, but is only a 160 rated recruits, we should be able to get recruits in the 150-200 range without any strings attached.
Thats not even true though.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:32 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by itsamemario View Post
Thats not even true though.
Yes...it is not true. They preferred to play together (of course...they are twins) but they were being recruited separately for the most part. They would have committed to different schools had the right situation not developed. And almost as soon as we did offer both...I think Eggs may have followed suit which should tell you a lot about either the perceived value of Gabe, or the value of the tandem as a whole. And it should also tell you something about the ingenuity of our coach to get the job done before someone else did.
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:17 AM   #77
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That's interesting. Rivals and 247 don't show offers for Mason from XU. I'll take your word for it. They have a number of highly ranked guards in the que, so that would have been pretty challenging for him. They do need wings and shooting.

One thing I'm certain of...the Madsen parents are happy they don't have to try to travel to separate schools to watch games. Even if it was just a handful, that would be a lot of time and money for travel. Even better, they don't have to pay for two kids' tuition!



Well, I'm really hoping UC can get that PF from Bardstown, KY. Really need someone his size coming up. I think some rules changes will be making the number of grad transfers go down. Transfer bigs will be a huge premium.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:28 AM   #78
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That's interesting. Rivals and 247 don't show offers for Mason from XU. I'll take your word for it. They have a number of highly ranked guards in the que, so that would have been pretty challenging for him. They do need wings and shooting.

One thing I'm certain of...the Madsen parents are happy they don't have to try to travel to separate schools to watch games. Even if it was just a handful, that would be a lot of time and money for travel. Even better, they don't have to pay for two kids' tuition!



Well, I'm really hoping UC can get that PF from Bardstown, KY. Really need someone his size coming up. I think some rules changes will be making the number of grad transfers go down. Transfer bigs will be a huge premium.

https://n.rivals.com/news/mason-madsen

As far as JJ Traynor (Bardstown). its reported he will redshirt. He and his family want to redshirt wherever he goes. So with that said Prince and Diarra really have to pan out this year or maybe someone like Tari Eason may be a better fit to come in and play right away(if he is capable of playing big minutes)

Last edited by itsamemario; 09-12-2019 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:48 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by itsamemario View Post
https://n.rivals.com/news/mason-madsen

As far as JJ Traynor (Bardstown). its reported he will redshirt. He and his family want to redshirt wherever he goes. So with that said Prince and Diarra really have to pan out this year or maybe someone like Tari Eason may be a better fit to come in and play right away(if he is capable of playing big minutes)
Yah...if we get Traynor we will need/want to probably get a transfer big as well if he red shirts. Eason seems interested in the West Coast but who knows. I would hate to strike out on both just like I would have not wanted to strike out on Both Madsen and Gordon so I am glad we got one of those in house already.

If we can get Traynor or Eason I think it takes a big load off of Brannen and he can rest a bit easier until spring with most of his work being done already for 2020.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:48 PM   #80
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Xavier making a late push for Traynor but it definetely feels like he is ours to lose.
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