2019-2020 Open Thread

skyblade · 02-21-2020, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

No one is saying it isn’t disappointing but it’s a different team with a different coach. It isn’t going to translate perfectly. To say cronin would take this team with a hurt Jarron, to the tourney is questionable.

I don't get your obsession with these two points. If Cronin had stayed, there is no doubt we'd be a NCAA tournament team, regardless of if Jarron was injured.

But this exact team, with players Cronin didn't recruit and some of whom he wouldn't have wanted. Yes, it's hard to say if he would have taken them to the NCAA tournament.

Yes, Jarron's injury hurts the team. But the Q3 games we have lost are games we would have won if the rest of the team had played with high-level effort and defense. Jarron being injured plays a factor, but it's not the key.

cincyguy13 · 02-21-2020, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblade

I don't get your obsession with these two points. If Cronin had stayed, there is no doubt we'd be a NCAA tournament team, regardless of if Jarron was injured.

But this exact team, with players Cronin didn't recruit and some of whom he wouldn't have wanted. Yes, it's hard to say if he would have taken them to the NCAA tournament.

Yes, Jarron's injury hurts the team. But the Q3 games we have lost are games we would have won if the rest of the team had played with high-level effort and defense. Jarron being injured plays a factor, but it's not the key.

No, if Jarron was hurt, I don’t think it’d be a tourney team. My point is brannen also has guys that he wouldn’t have recruited but some don’t want to admit that. He also had to put together a roster together late. Also a factor some don’t want to bring up. Maybe not you but some. If Jarron was hurt last year we probably would have been a .500 team.

cincyguy13 · 02-21-2020, 02:15 PM

If Jarron is hurt that’s a game changer. It doesn’t change the effort, but at the beginning of the year, no one would have put this team in the tournament without Jarron.

tonka · 02-21-2020, 03:34 PM

I think the bottom line is the staff whiffed on McNeal. The guy was expected to command 25-30 minutes at the PG spot and he can't be trusted. He obviously has the yips because even I can make a few free throws.

Missing at the PG spot while losing Jenifer and Broome has really hurt this team over the course of the season. Jarron has played well at times but he simply turns the ball over too much and as we have seen lately his shooting percentages are way down. There are multiple reasons why this could be.

Personally, I would like to see Jarron at the point for about 18-20 minutes, off the ball for 10-12, and resting for 8. Play Mika at the 1 for 20 minutes and off the ball for about 7-8. Rotate the wings with Keith, Jaevin, Harvey and a little bit of Davenport. I would cut McNeal from the rotation all together.

Also, I am not sure why we can't sprinkle in a little zone from time to time. Vogt screams defensive big that you keep in the paint for a 2-3 zone. I understand our man to man has been elite at times but I would like to see an adjustment every now and then that isn't a 1-3-1.

cincyguy13 · 02-21-2020, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonka

I think the bottom line is the staff whiffed on McNeal. The guy was expected to command 25-30 minutes at the PG spot and he can't be trusted. He obviously has the yips because even I can make a few free throws.

Missing at the PG spot while losing Jenifer and Broome has really hurt this team over the course of the season. Jarron has played well at times but he simply turns the ball over too much and as we have seen lately his shooting percentages are way down. There are multiple reasons why this could be.

Personally, I would like to see Jarron at the point for about 18-20 minutes, off the ball for 10-12, and resting for 8. Play Mika at the 1 for 20 minutes and off the ball for about 7-8. Rotate the wings with Keith, Jaevin, Harvey and a little bit of Davenport. I would cut McNeal from the rotation all together.

Also, I am not sure why we can't sprinkle in a little zone from time to time. Vogt screams defensive big that you keep in the paint for a 2-3 zone. I understand our man to man has been elite at times but I would like to see an adjustment every now and then that isn't a 1-3-1.

Wasn’t McNeal a 80% free throw shooter before this year? I feel like he’d be at least playable if he could shoot free throws. No way you’d could predict a meltdown at the line. He was a 30% 3 pt shooter also. Not sure what happened to him

Bcatfollower · 02-21-2020, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

Wasn’t McNeal a 80% free throw shooter before this year? I feel like he’d be at least playable if he could shoot free throws. No way you’d could predict a meltdown at the line. He was a 30% 3 pt shooter also. Not sure what happened to him

Old age

skyblade · 02-21-2020, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

Wasn’t McNeal a 80% free throw shooter before this year? I feel like he’d be at least playable if he could shoot free throws. No way you’d could predict a meltdown at the line. He was a 30% 3 pt shooter also. Not sure what happened to him

If Cronin was still here, we'd blame the coach.

skyblade · 02-21-2020, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

No, if Jarron was hurt, I don’t think it’d be a tourney team. My point is brannen also has guys that he wouldn’t have recruited but some don’t want to admit that. He also had to put together a roster together late. Also a factor some don’t want to bring up. Maybe not you but some. If Jarron was hurt last year we probably would have been a .500 team.

Brannen stated that Keith is his ideal player. He tried to recruit Tre Scott to NKU. And I doubt he minds having Jarron. The only guy left he didn't recruit is Diarra and considering our lack of big men, I doubt Brannen has complaints about having him.

Vogt on the other hand is a guy who Mick simply wouldn't play. Vogt's inability to defend the perimeter and rebound would put him on the bench permanently for Cronin. Jaevin also wouldn't be here if Mick was here (Jaevin wouldn't want to play for him and I don't think Mick would have wanted him).

Yes, if Jarron was hurt last year we would not have been an NCAA tournament team (though I doubt we would have been .500). But this year Scott and Williams have improved quite a bit. If Brooks was still here he'd be a contender for first team all AAC. If Cronin stayed, we would have been a NCAA tournament team easily even if Jarron had gone to the NBA.

Bcatfollower · 02-21-2020, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblade

If Cronin was still here, we'd blame the coach.

Thank goodness he isn’t still here.

TheLongHaul · 02-21-2020, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcatfollower

Thank goodness he isn’t still here.

good god, who gives a **** about Cronin. He left. Why Justin keeps bringing him up after complaining when others bring him up is mind boggling. And the over reactions are hilarious. This team has flaws but there is a crap ton to be optimistic about. Brannen is still adjusting but he will get there. Not to mention he has a very good 2020 class coming in.

Would Vogt and Jaevin be here if Cronin was here? Maybe not, but I'm sure as hell glad they are. Vogt is considerably better than Nsoseme could ever be and is worlds better offensively than Brooks. Still way better than Diarra. Lastly don't forget Cronin recruited Adam H, Biggie McClain, and several other complete stiffs. Anyone remember David Nyarsuk? Him or Vogt? hmm.....

02-21-2020, 02:15 PM	#303
cincyguy13 Epic Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 4,633	If Jarron is hurt that’s a game changer. It doesn’t change the effort, but at the beginning of the year, no one would have put this team in the tournament without Jarron.

02-21-2020, 03:34 PM	#304
tonka Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 93	I think the bottom line is the staff whiffed on McNeal. The guy was expected to command 25-30 minutes at the PG spot and he can't be trusted. He obviously has the yips because even I can make a few free throws. Missing at the PG spot while losing Jenifer and Broome has really hurt this team over the course of the season. Jarron has played well at times but he simply turns the ball over too much and as we have seen lately his shooting percentages are way down. There are multiple reasons why this could be. Personally, I would like to see Jarron at the point for about 18-20 minutes, off the ball for 10-12, and resting for 8. Play Mika at the 1 for 20 minutes and off the ball for about 7-8. Rotate the wings with Keith, Jaevin, Harvey and a little bit of Davenport. I would cut McNeal from the rotation all together. Also, I am not sure why we can't sprinkle in a little zone from time to time. Vogt screams defensive big that you keep in the paint for a 2-3 zone. I understand our man to man has been elite at times but I would like to see an adjustment every now and then that isn't a 1-3-1.