Go Back   BearcatTalk.com > Cincinnati Basketball > Bearcat Basketball

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-17-2022, 03:06 PM   #41
skyblade
Epic Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,665
skyblade is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin City View Post
This is so far from right. The kid is high character. I hope youíre in high school because if youíre an adult you should be embarrassed by your asinine claim.
Bcat has dedicated himself to hating Wes Miller and all the players who entered the transfer portal (blaming them for Brannen being fired I guess). Not sure if he is personally associated with Brannen or just decided to do his best JustinHub impression. I've taken to just ignoring him.

skyblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 04:40 PM   #42
waterhead
Senior Moderator
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,204
waterhead is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
I planned to do a post on this when we were 20 games in and the numbers started to mean something. Miya's stats can fill in the gaps between what individual stats show. There still aren't enough possessions to draw definitive conclusions, but it's still interesting.

The thing that stands out most to me is that Koval is our best offensive player per BPR. It think that's mostly because we play a 5 out offense with him on the floor, which makes up for our lack of half court schemes.

Although Ody's individual number isn't great, our best overall lineup (by far) is our starting 5 but swapping Ody for Ado. That tells me Ody struggles when he plays alongside other bench players, but really thrives with experienced guards who can compensate for his mistakes and leverage his strengths.

Our best defensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Madsen/Ody/Lakhin. None of those guys are disciplined defenders like Newman and MAW, but they are all extremely active and take risks. It's the chaos lineup.

The best offensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Newman/Ody/Lakhin. It's interesting that simply swapping Madsen for Newman changes the lineup from best defense to best offense. This lineup is four players who can get in the lane plus our best interior finisher.
Koval certainly provides some interesting options at the top of the key either when setting a pick or when he is reversing the ball etc. The big guarding him can't sag all the way down to the FT line like they do on Ado. Also when they are trying to blow up the screen you have to account for both players in the end. He also made a super easy pass to Newman in the paint because he looked for it rather than just reversing the ball like Ody and Ado.

He only takes good shots (and few of them) so his rating doesn't surprise me a lot. But those other options that opened up while he was in the game explain some of his plus minus numbers as well. It's probably just easier for this team when his skill set is in and we are dragging opposing bigs out of the lane (all the way out). Defensively he's the all time leading blocker right now and his thin frame isn't enough of a liability to offset his assets.
waterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 04:50 PM   #43
waterhead
Senior Moderator
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,204
waterhead is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
Koval certainly provides some interesting options at the top of the key either when setting a pick or when he is reversing the ball etc. The big guarding him can't sag all the way down to the FT line like they do on Ado. Also when they are trying to blow up the screen you have to account for both players in the end. He also made a super easy pass to Newman in the paint because he looked for it rather than just reversing the ball like Ody and Ado.

He only takes good shots (and few of them) so his rating doesn't surprise me a lot. But those other options that opened up while he was in the game explain some of his plus minus numbers as well. It's probably just easier for this team when his skill set is in and we are dragging opposing bigs out of the lane (all the way out). Defensively he's the all time leading blocker right now and his thin frame isn't enough of a liability to offset his assets.
Just think of when Koval or Ado reverses the ball from the key to the wing. Let's say the wing wants to try to drive the lane. In the case of Ado they see a big dude already waiting at the FT line (so they don't even try) and in the case of Koval they see a soft spot in the middle.

We are already challenged as a team to get the ball in the lane from the wing as we just don't have all the skills. But it's 3 times more difficult to do that with a big man waiting in the middle of the lane already. It might be why Koval leads the team in adjusted plus minus numbers when that's not what anyone would expect.
waterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 04:59 PM   #44
waterhead
Senior Moderator
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,204
waterhead is on a distinguished road
To make matters worse I would ask you...where on the court would you be guarding Ado (if anywhere)? And I am not trying to be nasty. My answer would be hardly anywhere even under the bucket if I am within 5 ft of him. Because he can't or doesn't shoot outside of 5 ft and he almost never goes up directly for a dunk without hesitating first.

It's almost like playing 4 on 5 when we are on offense. And the 5th guy is also getting in the way. This doesn't mean we can't use Ado...especially in defensive situations or when we are getting abused inside etc.

But he is an absolute offense killer IMO in more ways than one. Which is probably why his plus minus numbers are much worse than Koval and Ody
waterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 06:32 PM   #45
skyblade
Epic Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,665
skyblade is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
To make matters worse I would ask you...where on the court would you be guarding Ado (if anywhere)? And I am not trying to be nasty. My answer would be hardly anywhere even under the bucket if I am within 5 ft of him. Because he can't or doesn't shoot outside of 5 ft and he almost never goes up directly for a dunk without hesitating first.

It's almost like playing 4 on 5 when we are on offense. And the 5th guy is also getting in the way. This doesn't mean we can't use Ado...especially in defensive situations or when we are getting abused inside etc.

But he is an absolute offense killer IMO in more ways than one. Which is probably why his plus minus numbers are much worse than Koval and Ody
The thing with Ado is even if he gets the ball wide open under the basket, there's a 50/50 he will take so long handling the pass and getting the ball up that the other team will have time to recover and block his shot. WSU pretty much ignored him when they were on defense, except right around the rim.

But when Ado plays well, which happens some times, he is our best big. He has dominated on the offensive boards in a number games and played excellent defense. The problem is, he is so inconsistent (there are rumors of a lingering wrist/hand injury that may account for this). He's almost a guy you give 10 minutes in the first half and then sit him for the entire second half if he isn't playing well.

Koval/Ody are situational as well. They both struggle against bigs with size, especially Ody (who really struggles everywhere on defense). Koval is excellent against more mobile big men.

It comes down where do you want to be weak? Offense or defense? Miller generally prefers to be weak on offense. There really isn't a correct answer, but as long as Miller prefers guys who play defense over guys who play offense, Ody's minutes probably aren't going to increase and Ado's aren't going to decrease much. Koval might be earning more minutes though as he can excel on both ends in the right situation.

If you watched the post-game, Miller said at the end of the WSU game they talked about going offense/defense with Koval/Ado (same as they did against ECU), but he decided that Koval was their best option on both offense and defense against WSU's offense (they were running a lot of high ball screens, which Koval covers better than Ado).
skyblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 07:53 PM   #46
Cin City
Senior Member
 
Cin City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 377
Cin City is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblade View Post
Bcat has dedicated himself to hating Wes Miller and all the players who entered the transfer portal (blaming them for Brannen being fired I guess). Not sure if he is personally associated with Brannen or just decided to do his best JustinHub impression. I've taken to just ignoring him.
Fair. I get frustration. They are kids. Thatís the simplicity and complexity of it.
Cin City is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 08:47 PM   #47
Lefty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 128
Lefty is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
I posted this when we were still building our roster:

Here are the current numbers:
C (avg 9): Ado 13.5, Lakhin 13.0, Koval 6.5
PF (avg 8): Davenport 8.2, Ody 13.8, Hensley 5.9
SF (avg 6): Newman 5.4, Madsen 0
SG (avg 3): MAW 1.6, McGinnis 0
PG (avg 2): DeJulius 0.9, Saunders 0.6

Ado, Lakhin, and Ody are the only good rebounders on the team for their position. Davenport and Newman are about average, everyone else is bad.
Good point, thanks for stats as well.
Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2022, 08:51 PM   #48
Lefty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 128
Lefty is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
I planned to do a post on this when we were 20 games in and the numbers started to mean something. Miya's stats can fill in the gaps between what individual stats show. There still aren't enough possessions to draw definitive conclusions, but it's still interesting.

The thing that stands out most to me is that Koval is our best offensive player per BPR. It think that's mostly because we play a 5 out offense with him on the floor, which makes up for our lack of half court schemes.

Although Ody's individual number isn't great, our best overall lineup (by far) is our starting 5 but swapping Ody for Ado. That tells me Ody struggles when he plays alongside other bench players, but really thrives with experienced guards who can compensate for his mistakes and leverage his strengths.

Our best defensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Madsen/Ody/Lakhin. None of those guys are disciplined defenders like Newman and MAW, but they are all extremely active and take risks. It's the chaos lineup.

The best offensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Newman/Ody/Lakhin. It's interesting that simply swapping Madsen for Newman changes the lineup from best defense to best offense. This lineup is four players who can get in the lane plus our best interior finisher.
I would not have guessed Madsen > Newman defensively.
Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 08:20 AM   #49
sedziobs
Senior Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,951
sedziobs is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
I would not have guessed Madsen > Newman defensively.
Yeah, I think Newman is definitely a better defender than Madsen (their individual numbers show that). That lineup just happens to have worked well as a unit so far, but it could just be that the opponent didn't make many shots during those 20-30 possessions.
sedziobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 10:20 AM   #50
Queens_NYC
Elite Member
 
Queens_NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,354
Queens_NYC is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblade View Post

But when Ado plays well, which happens some times, he is our best big. He has dominated on the offensive boards in a number games and played excellent defense. The problem is, he is so inconsistent (there are rumors of a lingering wrist/hand injury that may account for this). He's almost a guy you give 10 minutes in the first half and then sit him for the entire second half if he isn't playing well.
I look at his FT shooting woes this season and wonder to what extent this can be attributed to injuries.

He was pretty much a 60% FT shooter going into this season and now he's at 38%.

Yet, none of his other stats seem to be far off what he did in 4 years at Miss State.
Queens_NYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., - All material on this Cincinnati Bearcat discussion forum is strictly for entertainment purposes only. This site and any pages within are in no way affiliated with the University of Cincinnati. Any images, copyrights, or trademarks used on this site are used under the "Fair Use Provision" of the Copyright Act for purposes of comment, criticism, and news reporting.