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Old 03-05-2021, 11:45 AM   #71
Loser Mentality
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Originally Posted by cincyguy13 View Post
We just aren’t good. We could be the toughest team in America this year and we still wouldn’t be good. Our players either aren’t good, Vogt dou, or not good yet. Our freshmen. We have 2 players that are decent most nights. Jd and Kieth and that’s just not enough

In regard to toughness, the last few games we've lost, just an ounce of "I'm not going to let you do this" may have helped. Lack of Leadership.

These teams aren't much better than us "Vanderbilt", but with a lack of mental toughness and a strong desire to win no matter what, we have seen our results.

We've been getting outworked in almost all aspects of defense. For us not be be that good of a shooting team, then our D has to always be a step above the rest.

If Vogt WANTED to Grab 10 Rebs a game he could, regardless his skill set, IQ whatever, and that goes for any other player rather it's rebounds, assists, etc. At some point you have to want it as an individual, which usually bleeds to the rest of the team. Right now we just don't have that.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:48 AM   #72
TheRealMick
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Originally Posted by Loser Mentality View Post
We got out toughed again, and it's a major theme in most or not all of our losses this year. Not saying the guys Brannen recruited aren't capable of being any player they set their minds to be, but these are nice guys, and that's a recipe for disaster in the AAC of at least toughness that has been branded by our program.

We need recruits and players with an edge, but maybe that is where Brannen the Diplomat maybe draws the line. Who knows?

The Pippen kid is good but, give me 5 wide open 3's I'm going to knock them down too.

Our players helped the other Teams Players off the floor, at any given moment. Those acts of kindness are a small display of weakness, that other teams and coaches take notice of and exploit. Of course not being a jerk about it, but maintaining our competitive edge which the players and program have yet to reach under Brannen.
No way he’s a diplomat but let his players help other teams up off court!
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:52 AM   #73
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If Keith Williams had killer instincts no way in hell he lets freshman dominate like that. Lack of toughness
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:13 PM   #74
cincyguy13
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Originally Posted by Loser Mentality View Post
In regard to toughness, the last few games we've lost, just an ounce of "I'm not going to let you do this" may have helped. Lack of Leadership.

These teams aren't much better than us "Vanderbilt", but with a lack of mental toughness and a strong desire to win no matter what, we have seen our results.

We've been getting outworked in almost all aspects of defense. For us not be be that good of a shooting team, then our D has to always be a step above the rest.

If Vogt WANTED to Grab 10 Rebs a game he could, regardless his skill set, IQ whatever, and that goes for any other player rather it's rebounds, assists, etc. At some point you have to want it as an individual, which usually bleeds to the rest of the team. Right now we just don't have that.
I disagree. Vogt tries. He works hard. He’s not coordinated and can’t move. Our guys work hard but they aren’t there yet or don’t really know what’s going on. It always looks like you aren’t working hard when aren’t good.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:38 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by cincyguy13 View Post
I disagree. Vogt tries. He works hard. He’s not coordinated and can’t move. Our guys work hard but they aren’t there yet or don’t really know what’s going on. It always looks like you aren’t working hard when aren’t good.

Read your post over and over about 70 times, and then ask yourself why is he here?

You make it seem as if he is 5'9 lol. He plays timidly.

It's okay to be honest, he's 7 ft tall. End of discussion.

I also think it's unfair of you to limit his possibilities.

No excuse can save reality, but does offer the idea of Vogt being used incorrectly on defense.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:13 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by sedziobs View Post
I think Brannen was forced to go zone because of foul trouble, which resulted in lots of open threes and offensive rebounds. Eason, Diarra, and Vogt combined for 12 fouls in only 43 minutes. We definitely looked like a team full of underclassmen.
Diarra picked up 2 fouls in the final minute, so between him and Vogt there wasn't a ton of foul trouble.

We went to the zone because we couldn't defend Pippen in man-to-man. Brannen mentioned after the game, we struggled in pick-and-roll defense. Vogt doesn't have the ability to hedge out hard enough to stop the 3 and also stop the drive, he struggles against players a lot less quick than Pippen. Against Pippen, Vogt had no chance.

Eason also struggled to properly hedge out to prevent the shot and drive. Diarra did better, but that brings up the second problem. Getting bigs switched onto Pippen. Brannen's defense isn't supposed to switch, but Pippen's quickness forced us to switch our big man onto him in the pick-and-roll pretty consistently. Again, Diarra did better at not switching than Eason, but neither exceled. Once they got the big switched onto Pippen, Vandy had a major advantage.

Most of Eason's fouls came when he was switched onto Pippen. Both Pippen driving on him and Pippen shooting threes when Eason got to far off. Diarra of course had they case where he just left Pippen completely, I assume that it was actually a poorly communicated attempt to switch off Pippen, rather than randomly deciding to triple team.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:21 PM   #77
cincyguy13
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Originally Posted by Loser Mentality View Post
Read your post over and over about 70 times, and then ask yourself why is he here?

You make it seem as if he is 5'9 lol. He plays timidly.

It's okay to be honest, he's 7 ft tall. End of discussion.

I also think it's unfair of you to limit his possibilities.

No excuse can save reality, but does offer the idea of Vogt being used incorrectly on defense.
It’s not about being tall. The best rebounders usually aren’t the tallest. He can’t move, he doesn’t have the highest bball iq, he doesn’t read the ball off the rim. He’s not good. His height doesn’t change that. If the ball doesn’t come directly to him, he’s not getting it

Last edited by cincyguy13; 03-05-2021 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:47 PM   #78
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Well we can’t go back in time and develop one this year. Brannen tried and missed on a couple high school guys. He did try but he has put the team in this position. Best case scenario to piece together something next year, while developing something. Maybe the Russian guy is better than Vogt or dou. That’s all I want next year. Someone who isn’t Vogt or dou.
Yeah and Brannen has put us in a position where our best option for next year is probably Vogt or Diarra coming back. At least they know the system. He needed to get a project big in year 1 or at least year 2. Go back and you can find me harping on the subject.

Vogt is the best big man transfer that Brannen has gotten in two years. What reason is there to believe he can do better next year?

I'd be amazed if Lakhin is any good. Watch the twitter video of him knocking down threes. Yeah he can shoot, but he is slow footed and has a slow release.

We can't go back in time, but we can get rid of the guy who put us in this position. So Brannen better figure something out.
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Old 03-05-2021, 02:08 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by cincyguy13 View Post
It’s not about being tall. The best rebounders usually aren’t the tallest. He can’t move, he doesn’t have the highest bball iq, he doesn’t read the ball off the rim. He’s not good. His height doesn’t change that. If the ball doesn’t come directly to him, he’s not getting it

Really lol!
Vogt had no business for the last 2 seasons on defense to be anywhere but inside the free line rectangle at all times.

We all saw what he was not able to do, but coach never adjusted, and kept running him out there to be abused, driven by, or to pick up or create fouls for team members. Instead of coaching to Vogt's strength lol! Created total loss of self confidence, for an area of his game that had not improved.

Seriously, if Vogt was used as a rim protector this year, I think some outcomes may have changed that could have resulted in wins.

Keeping him in the paint on defense would have allowed him to be more experienced and a deterrent in the paint. Let those with the ability to chase, chase players etc.

Vogt was sort of set up for failure, just to run the "D" how the Coach wanted instead of the "D" being catered to his current Big Man's ability.

Wasn't he a Pre Season All Conference Selection?
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Old 03-05-2021, 02:12 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by skyblade View Post
Diarra picked up 2 fouls in the final minute, so between him and Vogt there wasn't a ton of foul trouble.
...
Most of Eason's fouls came when he was switched onto Pippen.
Even if you remove Diarra's two fouls at the end of the game, he still had 2 in his other 10 minutes. Vogt had 3 in 10 minutes. Eason had 5 in 21 minutes. A team can't sustain picking up a foul every 4 minutes from the same position. Regardless of who was playing the 5, they were picking up fouls at a rapid pace when we were playing man (probably more like a foul every 2 minutes).

You seem to acknowledge that by stating Eason's fouls resulted from a switch. That's part of man defense. I'm not saying our man defense was good at all, but foul trouble was certainly part of why we had to play so much zone.
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