USF

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by Queens_NYC

Tonight was a bad loss. I don't care how you put it.

For the second consecutive game, we really missed Diarra. Not having an athletic option at the 5 to at least throw in there for spot minutes could very well be the death of this team.

For the second consecutive year Vogt lost the 1-on-1 match-up vs Durr.

Rap - god bless him, for all of his positive attributes (high character, intelligent, aggressive) is not a high major basketball player. Brannen signing him based off last year's Colgate performance is a move straight out of the Jeff Berding FC Cincinnati playbook (hope there's at least one poster here who gets that reference). I consider him a bigger miss than McNeal at this point.

Keith's foul trouble is a major issue - like a potentially season-defining problem. If he can't be on the court for at least 30 minutes/game, we're just not going to win many games with this bunch.

Dejulius and MAW are both struggling to adapt to new roles.

Harvey shows flashes of brilliance combined with long spells of inactivity.

Davenport had little impact on the game despite nearly playing the most minutes of anyone.

Eason was great.

The whole team seems to be still trying to figure out their roles. Which sucks, but understandable with a lot of new guys.

[Queens_NYC]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

The whole team seems to be still trying to figure out their roles. Which sucks, but understandable with a lot of new guys.

It does suck but is understandable. I have to remember we started 8-6 last year under similar circumstances (from a roster standpoint) with losses to Bowling Green, Colgate, and Tulane before things really started to gel.

[skyblade]

I am okay with a rebuilding year, assuming we see progress. But multi-year rebuild is in my mind just code for bad coaching. With basketball the way it is and especially a program at UC's level, a multiple year rebuild should not happen. It's one thing if Brannen inherited a disaster, but he didn't.

One of the concerning things this game is that we don't seem to be seeing progress. In fact, I saw a coach who might be starting to lose control of his team. You could see Brannen's frustration early in the game. He tried subbing in players very early - first Rap for Vogt, then a whole lineup - later he switched to zone for extended periods. Nothing worked. Cronin always had some guys who would play defense and give high effort even if they were terrible on offense, Brannen doesn't have anyone like that.

It's hard to take Brannen's concern for defense seriously. Of the three seniors, two are so bad at defense they would never see the floor under a coach like Cronin and Keith only plays defense about 25% of the time. Between that and playing Rap/Vogt at the most important defensive position on the floor, it's hard to believe Brannen's message about defense. It seems like the team doesn't really believe either.

The depth in theory allows Brannen to sub guys in when somebody doesn't give enough effort. But what happens if no one on the team tries? It also seems like Brannen is selective in who he calls out, even though no one is trying - he benched DeJulius for an extended period this game - which can build resentment quickly. It's one thing to bench the one guy who isn't giving effort, but again, what do you do when no one is. Huggins would have put the walk-ons in the game, but Brannen doesn't seem up for that.

This game gave me serious concerns not just for this season, but for our future. As others have pointed out, we have no one recruited for next season. I know Brannen uses Covid as an excuse, but Covid didn't stop Luke Fickell from filling every football scholarship during early signing.

It is hard to find guys to play center who are going to be good year one. Even transfers aren't a sure thing. Our center position looks bad this year, but may be even worse next year if Diarra doesn't return.

Not a lot of positives to take from the game. This team looks like it's probably our worst in at least 10-15 years and the worst defensive team in my memory. Eason was a bright spot, but that's about it. We also managed to throw off USF's rhythm for a bit with the press.

Even though the final score was close, it was another game where it never really felt like we would win. USF got the lead and kept it, every time we'd get close or tie it up they had an answer.

My expectations were low for this year, but this team looks to be even worse than I expected. If we lose to Georgia, that is probably the end of any hope to make the NCAA tournament outside of a miracle beating Houston to win the AAC tournament.

Even in the Cronin rebuild years, at least we had guys who were tough, brought intensity and effort. This team looks soft and seems to not particularly care about defense. Brannen can coach defense all he likes, first he needs to do something to change the entire mental makeup of the team.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I am okay with a rebuilding year, assuming we see progress. But multi-year rebuild is in my mind just code for bad coaching. With basketball the way it is and especially a program at UC's level, a multiple year rebuild should not happen. It's one thing if Brannen inherited a disaster, but he didn't.

One of the concerning things this game is that we don't seem to be seeing progress. In fact, I saw a coach who might be starting to lose control of his team. You could see Brannen's frustration early in the game. He tried subbing in players very early - first Rap for Vogt, then a whole lineup - later he switched to zone for extended periods. Nothing worked. Cronin always had some guys who would play defense and give high effort even if they were terrible on offense, Brannen doesn't have anyone like that.

It's hard to take Brannen's concern for defense seriously. Of the three seniors, two are so bad at defense they would never see the floor under a coach like Cronin and Keith only plays defense about 25% of the time. Between that and playing Rap/Vogt at the most important defensive position on the floor, it's hard to believe Brannen's message about defense. It seems like the team doesn't really believe either.

The depth in theory allows Brannen to sub guys in when somebody doesn't give enough effort. But what happens if no one on the team tries? It also seems like Brannen is selective in who he calls out, even though no one is trying - he benched DeJulius for an extended period this game - which can build resentment quickly. It's one thing to bench the one guy who isn't giving effort, but again, what do you do when no one is. Huggins would have put the walk-ons in the game, but Brannen doesn't seem up for that.

This game gave me serious concerns not just for this season, but for our future. As others have pointed out, we have no one recruited for next season. I know Brannen uses Covid as an excuse, but Covid didn't stop Luke Fickell from filling every football scholarship during early signing.

It is hard to find guys to play center who are going to be good year one. Even transfers aren't a sure thing. Our center position looks bad this year, but may be even worse next year if Diarra doesn't return.

Not a lot of positives to take from the game. This team looks like it's probably our worst in at least 10-15 years and the worst defensive team in my memory. Eason was a bright spot, but that's about it. We also managed to throw off USF's rhythm for a bit with the press.

Even though the final score was close, it was another game where it never really felt like we would win. USF got the lead and kept it, every time we'd get close or tie it up they had an answer.

My expectations were low for this year, but this team looks to be even worse than I expected. If we lose to Georgia, that is probably the end of any hope to make the NCAA tournament outside of a miracle beating Houston to win the AAC tournament.

Even in the Cronin rebuild years, at least we had guys who were tough, brought intensity and effort. This team looks soft and seems to not particularly care about defense. Brannen can coach defense all he likes, first he needs to do something to change the entire mental makeup of the team.

There is definitely reason to be concerned but I still think it’s way too early to be really concerned. It’s been a weird couple seasons. I am concerned about this years recruiting class. We need more guys. We have pieces, good pieces but we need more. Like you said, it can’t be a multi year rebuild. We need big bodies, that is clear. Whether it’s juco, transfers, or whatever, we can’t count on vogts and rap forever. Get a big scorer, and a big athletic guy. Have options, they don’t have to be complete players but we need to be able to put a player in the game that will help or change it up. Vogt and rap are the same. So when you put one in, it’s not helping

[cincyguy13]

As far as cronin goes, not trying to start that debate again but I’m not sure he could do much with last years team if jarron was hurt or this years team. We didn’t have much in the pipeline. Yes, we would probably win more games and get a 10ish seed and lose again, but to me, we are trying to get past that. To me the debate isn’t cronin to brannen, it’s continuing to do the same thing that we have for 20 years or trying something new, knowing there a chance it might not work. Also a chance it might.

[TheLivingLegend]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

As far as cronin goes, not trying to start that debate again but I’m not sure he could do much with last years team if jarron was hurt or this years team. We didn’t have much in the pipeline. Yes, we would probably win more games and get a 10ish seed and lose again, but to me, we are trying to get past that. To me the debate isn’t cronin to brannen, it’s continuing to do the same thing that we have for 20 years or trying something new, knowing there a chance it might not work. Also a chance it might.

Correct. We were staring at an eliel. Trevor moore and Logan Johnson era.

We suck. John better figure out that top 25 programs need a different level athlete. But he gets his 4 years to show me something great.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by TheLivingLegend

Correct. We were staring at an eliel. Trevor moore and Logan Johnson era.

We suck. John better figure out that top 25 programs need a different level athlete. But he gets his 4 years to show me something great.

I wouldn’t want a complete 4 year rebuild. To me, this year can be a wash. It’s a weird year anyway. Lot of new guys. Most of the teams look like crap anyway. Next year, I would like to see a good jump. No cronin guys left. Most 1-2 years in the program. At least an NIT or bubble team next year. Maybe 4 years to get it completely going but that’s a long time

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by TheLivingLegend

Correct. We were staring at an eliel. Trevor moore and Logan Johnson era.

We suck. John better figure out that top 25 programs need a different level athlete. But he gets his 4 years to show me something great.

I just want him to try different things. Go super small and press. See what happens. Play Saunders and DD together. Why not? Don’t continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. We’ve seen Vogt struggle in pick and roll for 2 years. Try something else. 2-3 zone. Whatever.

[TheLivingLegend]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

I wouldn’t want a complete 4 year rebuild. To me, this year can be a wash. It’s a weird year anyway. Lot of new guys. Most of the teams look like crap anyway. Next year, I would like to see a good jump. No cronin guys left. Most 1-2 years in the program. At least an NIT or bubble team next year. Maybe 4 years to get it completely going but that’s a long time

Agree... Sorta. 4 hrs since hire. He's on yr two.

I have no interest in being an NIT team. I expect NCAA teams yearly.... With runs spinkled in. Next yr we have a major big issue. So John better find something.

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

I don’t mind a rebuild if it means more success in March. Never really got excited about just getting there. If you did, great. So if we have to have a down year or two, to achieve that, I’m willing to try. We will see if it actually pays off.

But what about this style says we will win in much?

Not being a smart ass. Just asking