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Old 11-08-2018, 02:14 PM   #231
cincrulz11
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Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
The 5 man lineup is difficult to say. I can only tell you 4 of them. I was hoping we could go with 1 big at a time. I don't think Brooks or Ellie work very well with high ball screens or pick n rolls.

Ellie just has no offensive game at all. Twice we could at least throw it to brooks and he scored from 3 feet on a smaller defender. Ellie can't even give you that.


That is why he stands no chance to play anywhere close to 25 minutes like some had suggested.

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Old 11-08-2018, 02:36 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by cincrulz11 View Post
Ellie just has no offensive game at all. Twice we could at least throw it to brooks and he scored from 3 feet on a smaller defender. Ellie can't even give you that.


That is why he stands no chance to play anywhere close to 25 minutes like some had suggested.
I don't really want either one of them out there for more than 15 minutes. Brooks can probably make a couple of baby hooks per game but Ellie will probably get a couple more rebounds and add to the foul total of the other team. The baby hook isn't drawing any fouls. Ellie is a bit more mobile on D as well but who knows it's probably all a wash.

I just hate the idea of putting one of them out there with Scott all the time. Buzz kill
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:17 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
I doubt any coach would sit their superstar after getting one foul for 8 minutes in 1H
Although not stars-related, KenPom has a 2-Foul Participation rate for teams measuring what % of remaining minutes a starter plays after picking up 2nd foul in 1st half. Average is about 20% (in 2017); thus, if Cumberland had picked up his 2nd with 10 minutes left, the avg. no. of minutes a Div I coach would have played him the remainder of the half is 2 minutes. UC was #297 last year at 7.6%, far below the avg. Some notables above and below UC include Syr 58.3%; Duke 41.5%; AZ 36.1%; Kan 29.9%; XU 25.4%; Mich St. 5.8%; Louisv. (Pitino) 4.6%; UVA 3.8% and Mich. 0.6%. Thought the numbers were intersting. BTW, the trend is heading downward since info became available in 2010. And I know you were talking about sitting after 1 foul and not 2. Agree with you on premise of your post (8 minutes after 1 foul).
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:28 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by indydoug View Post
Although not stars-related, KenPom has a 2-Foul Participation rate for teams measuring what % of remaining minutes a starter plays after picking up 2nd foul in 1st half. Average is about 20% (in 2017); thus, if Cumberland had picked up his 2nd with 10 minutes left, the avg. no. of minutes a Div I coach would have played him the remainder of the half is 2 minutes. UC was #297 last year at 7.6%, far below the avg. Some notables above and below UC include Syr 58.3%; Duke 41.5%; AZ 36.1%; Kan 29.9%; XU 25.4%; Mich St. 5.8%; Louisv. (Pitino) 4.6%; UVA 3.8% and Mich. 0.6%. Thought the numbers were intersting. BTW, the trend is heading downward since info became available in 2010. And I know you were talking about sitting after 1 foul and not 2. Agree with you on premise of your post (8 minutes after 1 foul).
Nice find! And the idea that a stat doesn't exist for 1 foul is pretty telling. Plus Duke has plenty of players they can back up a player with. So they can likely play right through foul trouble on guards...maybe not a valuable big.

We have no answer for Cumberland making it more likely we should look at playing him even after 2 fouls as long as they aren't super early in the first half. You have to try to max his minutes and let him know he needs to watch the fouls out there and let him play. Let the chips fall. If he proves he cannot keep it in check then maybe revisit.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:44 PM   #235
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Nice find! And the idea that a stat doesn't exist for 1 foul is pretty telling. Plus Duke has plenty of players they can back up a player with. So they can likely play right through foul trouble on guards...maybe not a valuable big.

We have no answer for Cumberland making it more likely we should look at playing him even after 2 fouls as long as they aren't super early in the first half. You have to try to max his minutes and let him know he needs to watch the fouls out there and let him play. Let the chips fall. If he proves he cannot keep it in check then maybe revisit.
Agree fully, although the lack of 1 foul data might suggest there would be too many data points to even try to figure out.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:50 PM   #236
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This was the bonehead move! Sitting with 1 foul. We can talk all day about the philosophy to sit a player with 2 fouls for the rest of the half. That is done all the time. As some have mentioned though...he is VITAL to our team scoring so you might roll with the punches with Cumberland. If we are going to sit him with 2 fouls I think we need to get Johnson on the court and that probably has to be with Broome and not Jenifer.
Waterhead I think what Mick needs to do is run a more player friendly offense with multiple player options. Because what happens is the guys stand around and doesnít move. Which makes us very easy to guard. Especially when we will are not shooting the ball well. I donít think Mick knows how to draw up play to incorporate more than 1 player.
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:00 PM   #237
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Agree Broome will have better nights but he can't negate those better nights by giving up open looks which negate his offense.
Itís a result of some of the way Cronin does things. If Cronin was more of a players coach and allowed more freedom of play. Youíre see guys like Cane and Justin putting up shoots and not passing on them. Cane shot the ball 2 times in the second half and if heís our second option he needs more touches than that. And thatís where Mick comes in, and plus he had Cane sitting for over 6 minutes in the second half. That canít happen, Mick need to do better substituting
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:19 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by BearcatsNE View Post
Waterhead I think what Mick needs to do is run a more player friendly offense with multiple player options. Because what happens is the guys stand around and doesnít move. Which makes us very easy to guard. Especially when we will are not shooting the ball well. I donít think Mick knows how to draw up play to incorporate more than 1 player.
I am not going to go back and watch that ugliness but it seems to me we didn't get a lot of set shots from 3 off the pass. We no longer have an inside out game which helped tremendously in that regard when our bigs were doubled. Now all we have is send Cumberland or Broome towards the lane and kick it out...but we didn't get much out of that in terms of easy set shots. Our shooting suffered because of that. When passing it around the perimeter we rarely do it fast enough or with enough reversals to keep the defense on their toes. I saw Cumberland begging for the quick reversal twice in the same sequence last night and he would have been open both times.

Just little things would help
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:32 PM   #239
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Sooooooooo depressing. The team Mick had the first year he took over from Andy Kennedy was better than this one offensively.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:59 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2 View Post
Until we are able to recruit with the big boys again this is the product we are forced to live with. Are you willing to bit the bit for a couple years while Mick changes his philosophy which enables us to win a bunch of games and compete for league and conference titles for the chance we may advance a bit farther in the dance,

And Legend my friend your much to smart a fan to believe the melt down we had in the Nevada game was philosophy.
One coukd argue that his lack of offensive mentality prevents better recruits from coming to u.c.. i doubt many good scorers would look at how mick coaches O as something they want to do.
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