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Old 05-03-2011, 10:39 AM   #11
dp3113
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Originally Posted by cincinnati insanity View Post
I agree with maybe ellis not being strong enough physically, but sometimes kids frames will not hold weight like others. I for one think Ellis will be very good and dont think that they should necessarily red shirt him unless skill wise he is behind. there is to much emphasis on bulk and not skill. darnell for example could of been redshirted 10 times and still would not of added bulk to him. Wilks needed a better understanding of the game more than he needed weight. i would love to see Ellis next year playing. And all though i believe he should gain some weight, i wouldnt risk what he brings to the table for a legitimate elite eight team.
you cant play everyone though. if you play too many players, roles are undefined and that leads to problems. there is a reason the best teams routinely have rotations of 8 guys who play a lot and maybe a 9th or 10th who contribute here or there at certain points.

a good example is texas 2 years. probably 12 d-1 starters on their team. yet they collapsed because there was no cohesion or roles. ellis is a raw player. a 185 PF isnt going to come in and do anything on defense in the big east. darnell didnt add weight, but he got stronger. he was a solid 205 and could actually guard by his senior year without getting knocked over like he did his first two years.
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dp3113 View Post
you cant play everyone though. if you play too many players, roles are undefined and that leads to problems. there is a reason the best teams routinely have rotations of 8 guys who play a lot and maybe a 9th or 10th who contribute here or there at certain points.

a good example is texas 2 years. probably 12 d-1 starters on their team. yet they collapsed because there was no cohesion or roles. ellis is a raw player. a 185 PF isnt going to come in and do anything on defense in the big east. darnell didnt add weight, but he got stronger. he was a solid 205 and could actually guard by his senior year without getting knocked over like he did his first two years.
I agree. Depth tends to be very overrated. It's helpful when in foul trouble but in reality most good teams play their best 8 or so player the vast majority of the game.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:25 PM   #13
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I agree. Depth tends to be very overrated. It's helpful when in foul trouble but in reality most good teams play their best 8 or so player the vast majority of the game.
I'm not sure it's over rated. I think there is a fine line- you need a certain amount of depth for the style of play Mick wants to run as well as you mentioned, it can aid in situations of foul trouble. At the same time, I agree that if your rotation goes too deep (10, 11, 12 guys regularly) roles are difficult to define and cohesion on the court is as well.

Give me a strong 8,9 or 10 and I'm happy. Theoretically (and hopefully) that means you've got interchangeable parts and lose as little as possible when a starter comes out of the game. Clearly that's not always the case but I think that's what you strive for.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:46 PM   #14
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I agree. Depth tends to be very overrated. It's helpful when in foul trouble but in reality most good teams play their best 8 or so player the vast majority of the game.
Depth is critical for disciplinary and practice intensity reasons. Just because you only play 7 or 8 in a typical game doesn't mean being 10-11 deep with talented players doesn't bear fruit.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:51 PM   #15
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Depth is critical for disciplinary and practice intensity reasons. Just because you only play 7 or 8 in a typical game doesn't mean being 10-11 deep with talented players doesn't bear fruit.
It's nice to have for injuries and foul trouble as well. You can also exploit match ups, and use it defensively to wear a player or players down.
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:45 PM   #16
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Depth is critical for disciplinary and practice intensity reasons. Just because you only play 7 or 8 in a typical game doesn't mean being 10-11 deep with talented players doesn't bear fruit.
Never said it's worthless. But if you look at the best teams over the past decade, they tend to go about 8 deep. IMO, the so called "depth" of the roster hurt this team the last two years. IMO too many players got too much playing time, especially early on.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:02 PM   #17
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Your points are valid ones. Most coaches will tell you that will take talent over experience any day. I believe you need a mix. The only place I think UC will see a drop off is in the variety of ways Bishop contributed. Mick is smart enough to alter style to fit the roster. If the top 6 or 7 have to play more minutes he will set tempo to do that. If the freshman pg's can't handle their role Dixon will play some point. Jackson played a key role as a frosh and you won't convince me he played near the competition in HS that Davis, Thomas, Guyn and Sanders played against. Defense is my major concern. Not depth.
I think defense off the bench will be a bigger drop off than what we lose with Bishop. Don't get me wrong, Bishop's loss will be felt as well as Thomas ability to position himself on the rebounding end (hopefully Jackson can replace this), but what Davis and Wilks brought off the bench was invaluable last season. There were games where they came in for a brief spell and as a team we just shut opponents down. I'm hard-pressed to believe we'll see that type of discipline on the defensive end out of freshmen. My only hope is Parker can mature enough to come off the bench and kind of be our Larry Davis the next two seasons.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:12 PM   #18
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Exactly why I believe there will be more match up zone. They will be long and athletic. Mick and the staff do a very good job teaching team rebounding. The perimeter guys are experienced for the most part. I look for zone early in the season with some m2m mixed in and for the team to transition as the season goes on to more man defense. The one constant I believe will be a 3/4 court press with some fullcourt press as well.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:04 PM   #19
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It won't be long and players will start arriving on campus for the summer! I'm already excited for the summer league!!
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