Savannah State

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

played pg in high school, was recruited as a pg, played pg, playing pg as a professional.


i dont know why people can't accept it. caupain is NOT an off the ball player at all and he's not a shooter or a slasher.


certainly caupain had limitations as a player but everybody thinking he was out of position and wasn't a real pg missed all the things he did really well and really missed one hell of a career.

Yea IMO Troy is and was a PG. I mean he is the all time assists leader at UC.

He was a big bruising PG. and IMO, the only other position Troy could really play was a really undersized 4 in a small lineup. He doesn't shoot well enough to be a 2 or 3. He can however guard bigger guys than him and also post up well for a PG. But reality is; he is a true PG.

[AZ BEARCAT]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

Yea IMO Troy is and was a PG. I mean he is the all time assists leader at UC.

He was a big bruising PG. and IMO, the only other position Troy could really play was a really undersized 4 in a small lineup. He doesn't shoot well enough to be a 2 or 3. He can however guard bigger guys than him and also post up well for a PG. But reality is; he is a true PG.

I think what we see now is a different style of a point guard in a high tempo game. Both point guards but a different style game.

[AZ BEARCAT]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

played pg in high school, was recruited as a pg, played pg, playing pg as a professional.


i dont know why people can't accept it. caupain is NOT an off the ball player at all and he's not a shooter or a slasher.


certainly caupain had limitations as a player but everybody thinking he was out of position and wasn't a real pg missed all the things he did really well and really missed one hell of a career.

agree

[waterhead]

I think we have a quality starter and a quality backup which is nice. I feel the most comfortable this year of maybe all Cronin years using our backup.

Jenifer really has come a long way. He's really put the effort in and has listened to coach and has now been rewarded with a start and legit playing time. We don't need him to score but fortunately he can do that a little as well. His shot is much better and he takes care of the ball. He can run the break very well. Passing is very good. Obviously it would be nice if he were a few inches taller and could make them FT's...but outside of that...he can ball a little bit.

I like watching him get after it on D and press too. He's not going to use his long arms to get deflections but he will get right up under you and make it difficult to put the ball on the floor. He's got no problem with facilitating and he takes smart shots. He's got good energy as well and he pumps himself up when he makes a good defensive play. I like it when players get excited about a good defensive play and not just making a big shot.

he's a good kid and I like him more and more.

[RDCat]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

Yea IMO Troy is and was a PG. I mean he is the all time assists leader at UC.

He was a big bruising PG. and IMO, the only other position Troy could really play was a really undersized 4 in a small lineup. He doesn't shoot well enough to be a 2 or 3. He can however guard bigger guys than him and also post up well for a PG. But reality is; he is a true PG.

He was a mediocre PG at best when considering all his skills....both offensive and defensive, which is why the team accomplished very little during his era other than regular season wins in a fairly weak mid-major conference, and a pathetic OOC schedule. In post season play, when the competition got tougher, the record speaks for itself. In the 4 NCAA knockout games against a little better competition (Harvard, Kentucky, St. Joe, UCLA), he was a combined 10 for 37 from the field, with 10 assists (2.5/game), 9 Turnovers (2.25/game), and 32 points (8/game). The opposition PGs were a combined 19-41 from the field, 20 assists, 5 turnovers, and 61 points.

I am excited that Mick got Cane Broome, and that he continues to develop Justin Jenifer into a fine backup and sometimes starter. The point guard position has been upgraded significantly. Troy Caupain had a nice career, but we will see this offense elevate itself through improved point guard play this year.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by RDCat

He was a mediocre PG at best when considering all his skills.

as i said, a lot of people missed a really good career. very unfortunate.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by RDCat

He was a mediocre PG at best when considering all his skills....both offensive and defensive, which is why the team accomplished very little during his era other than regular season wins in a fairly weak mid-major conference, and a pathetic OOC schedule. In post season play, when the competition got tougher, the record speaks for itself. In the 4 NCAA knockout games against a little better competition (Harvard, Kentucky, St. Joe, UCLA), he was a combined 10 for 37 from the field, with 10 assists (2.5/game), 9 Turnovers (2.25/game), and 32 points (8/game). The opposition PGs were a combined 19-41 from the field, 20 assists, 5 turnovers, and 61 points.

I am excited that Mick got Cane Broome, and that he continues to develop Justin Jenifer into a fine backup and sometimes starter. The point guard position has been upgraded significantly. Troy Caupain had a nice career, but we will see this offense elevate itself through improved point guard play this year.

I would say Troy was a very solid PG. I would grade him out as a B overall but maybe not an A and definitely not a mediocre C. He may not have played so well in the tourney but his numbers in big games overall (in his career) were better than many of his playing partners. Troy did not pad his stats against patsies...I remember doing some checking on that. He actually facilitated against patsies more and got bigger in bigger games. Cronin trusted him for 2 years to be the "closer" in close games. It would have been nice if Troy had some help in that department. Obviously we weren't going to use bigs to close out games because you need someone who can create a good look at the basket and bigs can get doubled in a hurry. Evans was not that guy and Cumberland was only becoming that guy towards the end. KJ was not in any way..."that guy". SK was the only "closer" we have had in recent years besides Troy...and every team knew who was getting the ball in crunch time.

Putting all that on his shoulders is probably ill informed. Troy got a lot out of a little. Most of his career he worked with guys who had little to no NBA potential. He didn't care or complain...he just did what he could. He made mediocre teams better in general with the possible exception of last year when we really had a very good team...but still no help with closing games until Cumberland came on in the end.

[RDCat]

Originally Posted by waterhead

I would say Troy was a very solid PG. I would grade him out as a B overall but maybe not an A and definitely not a mediocre C. He may not have played so well in the tourney but his numbers in big games overall (in his career) were better than many of his playing partners. Troy did not pad his stats against patsies...I remember doing some checking on that. He actually facilitated against patsies more and got bigger in bigger games. Cronin trusted him for 2 years to be the "closer" in close games. It would have been nice if Troy had some help in that department. Obviously we weren't going to use bigs to close out games because you need someone who can create a good look at the basket and bigs can get doubled in a hurry. Evans was not that guy and Cumberland was only becoming that guy towards the end. KJ was not in any way..."that guy". SK was the only "closer" we have had in recent years besides Troy...and every team knew who was getting the ball in crunch time.

Putting all that on his shoulders is probably ill informed. Troy got a lot out of a little. Most of his career he worked with guys who had little to no NBA potential. He didn't care or complain...he just did what he could. He made mediocre teams better in general with the possible exception of last year when we really had a very good team...but still no help with closing games until Cumberland came on in the end.

I go to the games. My mediocre comment is based on the eye test, not his stats. It is based on the stuff that people have talked about for the last 4 years on these sites.....i.e. his walking the ball up the court, looking at Mick to tell him what to do, poor shooting, poor defense, etc. His standout stat was assist to turnover ratio, but I would argue that by the time that he wasted away most of the shot clock, he either shot a rushed three as the clock ran out, or made one of his typical diagonal passes to the wing for a rushed three, or our well known "pass the ball around the 3-pt. line" till someone throws up a late three. That style wouldn't really create a whole lot of turnover opportunities. He shot way too much for being a low percentage shooter, therefore, he made enough to get his points per game to a respectable number, and of course, his assists to turnover ratio looked impressive. I'm more of a B- to C+ for him, which I consider somewhat mediocre, but I certainly could agree that overall, he had a good career. 4 years from now, I don't think anyone will be remembering a whole lot about Troy Caupain and that is because these current and future point guards will easily make us forget him. That is my prediction. No sense beating this dead horse. Everyone has made up their opinion on him, including me. He's gone. The new guys are here now and this team is exciting!!! Let's get excited for what's ahead. It's been a while since we've had this level of talent and great expectations!

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by RDCat

I go to the games. My mediocre comment is based on the eye test, not his stats. It is based on the stuff that people have talked about for the last 4 years on these sites.....i.e. his walking the ball up the court, looking at Mick to tell him what to do, poor shooting, poor defense, etc. His standout stat was assist to turnover ratio, but I would argue that by the time that he wasted away most of the shot clock, he either shot a rushed three as the clock ran out, or made one of his typical diagonal passes to the wing for a rushed three, or our well known "pass the ball around the 3-pt. line" till someone throws up a late three. That style wouldn't really create a whole lot of turnover opportunities. He shot way too much for being a low percentage shooter, therefore, he made enough to get his points per game to a respectable number, and of course, his assists to turnover ratio looked impressive. I'm more of a B- to C+ for him, which I consider somewhat mediocre, but I certainly could agree that overall, he had a good career. 4 years from now, I don't think anyone will be remembering a whole lot about Troy Caupain and that is because these current and future point guards will easily make us forget him. That is my prediction. No sense beating this dead horse. Everyone has made up their opinion on him, including me. He's gone. The new guys are here now and this team is exciting!!! Let's get excited for what's ahead. It's been a while since we've had this level of talent and great expectations!

Perhaps it would have been nice for Troy to pass the ball and have player A or B do something with it? That is precisely what wings are supposed to do. Do you think he would have been a better guard if someone did that? Do you think we ended up late in the shot clock all the time because Troy was the problem or because he had little help? We didn't have aggressive players on the perimeter. KJ was the antithesis of aggressive and Evans was not a creator. They did not drive the ball well. These guys were pass around the perimeter guys.

I agree we should be excited for the future. I didn't bring up Troy.

[RDCat]

Originally Posted by waterhead

Perhaps it would have been nice for Troy to pass the ball and have player A or B do something with it? That is precisely what wings are supposed to do. Do you think he would have been a better guard if someone did that? Do you think we ended up late in the shot clock all the time because Troy was the problem or because he had little help? We didn't have aggressive players on the perimeter. KJ was the antithesis of aggressive and Evans was not a creator. They did not drive the ball well.

I agree we should be excited for the future. I didn't bring up Troy.

I absolutely do feel that his slow pace of play and running most of the shot clock out affected everyone in a negative way. We tended to rush a lot of shots rather than shooting relaxed and in rhythm. We rarely got easy shots in transition, because he wouldn't push the ball. Maybe Mick deserves some of that blame, but I heard him make comments a number of times indicating that he wanted to run, but Troy would slow it down on his own.

I know you didn't bring it up. Maybe I did, or maybe someone else did. Can't remember, but it has went on too long now, so we can all move on.