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Old 11-17-2014, 03:36 PM   #51
WAITE HOYT 2
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I have no issue with wanting this program to be the best in the country. I want them to win every game and when they don't I'm disappointed. Him stressing defense which has produced many wins isn't good enough. It's a smoke screen. They have given up on trying to run him down by comparing him to our past coach so they have taken to giving backhanded compliments. He is good but the fans don't come out,he should recruit better,the program isn't what it was, we aren't elite we are good.Mick can't win the big games.I sat there Friday night in the lower bowl until I finally had to say something to a group who had know knowledge of the game but where trying to run down the coach. That is one reason I would rather watch at home. I don't have to deal with idiots. Truth is we haven't been elite since the 60's if winning a title is the bar. I have to agree with L-T attendance is down. For many reasons, the biggest is that going to the games isn't the event it once was. Huggins persona had a lot to do with that. I used to love to watch him work the officials or when he pulled a guy you new in the third row of the upper deck he was unhappy. He was worth the price of admission. He was a draw himself. We won leagues and were the bad boys doing it. We were the Pistons of the college ranks. Many people enjoyed and miss that. Those days are gone. Mick is trying to create his own brand. I for one enjoy it and hope he is here a long time. He is from Cincinnati and wants to be here. UC is his dream job. The unfortunate circumstances he inherited the program under follow his every move. I'll be there We'd. To cheer the Cats on. I would hope if you are truly interested in helping take the program to the upper tier don't talk about what we are not but what we are becoming. Be part of the solution not the problem. Cincinnati fans are funny. They are passionate about their teams and always think they know more then the guy who is being paid to do the job.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:37 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by L-T View Post
Matt, if you're top 15 out of 335, that's pretty elite wouldn't you say. Let's not get an argument started about the different levels of elite.
I'm happy with the program success, but you can't really compare Cincinnati to the other schools I've listed and say they're in the same category. They're not, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. And for the record, I like Mick. A lot. He took a dead program and made us relevant again. He's made the NCAA tournament an annual expectation and that's certainly impressive after Huggins left (Andy Kennedy got screwed the one year we should have made the toruney field).

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Our lack of shooting has been discussed many times. We see so many teams around the country who have a number of very good shooters, yet we can't seem to get a single one. Quadri Moore posesses some good shooting skills, but it will be seen if Mick allows him out on the perimeter very much. Everyone else seems to be developing their outside shooting while they're still here. Nobody arrives here ready to light it up.
Last year, UC's margin or error was so small. Every possession mattered in a ton of games because we couldn't produce points even when our D was excellent. Ken Pom ranked UC around 110th in Offensive Efficiency, but we had a top 10 Defense (it was 8th) and lost to Harvard because we couldn't score.

The year we beat Florida State, their Defense was ranked higher than ours (13th compared to 22nd) but we had a better offense (61st compared to 81st). Offense won out. In close games, it usually does. Since the NCAA has changed the rules on all the hand checking, it also means the sport is more geared towards the offensive player. You need to have both, but I'm just at a loss as to why we don't proactively recruit more players who are good scorers. Teams with guys who can make a shot and stretch defenses out are hard to beat. It was excruciating to watch teams bottle up on Kilpatrick last year simply because we had no one else that could score. Also, when you play teams who are going to zone UC (and some will have to because of our size) where will the offense come from?
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:47 PM   #53
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MIck does recruit guys who can score they just chose to go elsewhere. He has been very close on a few.walker from UCONN was one. Trey Burke was another. At the end of the day you have to play with the guys you get. Expecting Mick to out recruit Calhoun or Izzo is a tall order. We'll get there.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:01 PM   #54
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I want to let this season play out a little before talking about the whole "we never have shooters" thing. Caupain was brought in to be a good distributor...that helps shooting. We brough in 5 new big guys to have an inside game...that helps shooting. Also brought in a backup PG known for his shooting ability in Cobb. And Moore draining a rhythm 3 on his first shot as a Bearcat is encouraging as well. As the rotation works itself out, it should become more clear to some that Mick has worked hard to address shooting.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:25 PM   #55
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I want to let this season play out a little before talking about the whole "we never have shooters" thing. Caupain was brought in to be a good distributor...that helps shooting. We brough in 5 new big guys to have an inside game...that helps shooting. Also brought in a backup PG known for his shooting ability in Cobb. And Moore draining a rhythm 3 on his first shot as a Bearcat is encouraging as well. As the rotation works itself out, it should become more clear to some that Mick has worked hard to address shooting.
Jacob the bottom line is Mick does recruit shooters. For whatever reason they have chosen to go elsewhere. As his reputation grows his ability to land the more high profile players will improve. Until then he'll continue to coach them up and win with the players he has gotten.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:47 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Bearcatmatt View Post
I'm happy with the program success, but you can't really compare Cincinnati to the other schools I've listed and say they're in the same category. They're not, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. And for the record, I like Mick. A lot. He took a dead program and made us relevant again. He's made the NCAA tournament an annual expectation and that's certainly impressive after Huggins left (Andy Kennedy got screwed the one year we should have made the toruney field).



Last year, UC's margin or error was so small. Every possession mattered in a ton of games because we couldn't produce points even when our D was excellent. Ken Pom ranked UC around 110th in Offensive Efficiency, but we had a top 10 Defense (it was 8th) and lost to Harvard because we couldn't score.

The year we beat Florida State, their Defense was ranked higher than ours (13th compared to 22nd) but we had a better offense (61st compared to 81st). Offense won out. In close games, it usually does. Since the NCAA has changed the rules on all the hand checking, it also means the sport is more geared towards the offensive player. You need to have both, but I'm just at a loss as to why we don't proactively recruit more players who are good scorers. Teams with guys who can make a shot and stretch defenses out are hard to beat. It was excruciating to watch teams bottle up on Kilpatrick last year simply because we had no one else that could score. Also, when you play teams who are going to zone UC (and some will have to because of our size) where will the offense come from?
Matt, there's not a damn thing I can do about us being considered an elite program. I did not author any of the articles above. There are many more just like those. Why would you want to believe that we're not worthy when the whole nation says we are and the university says we are?

I agree with you. If you're a one dimensional program, you'll rarely advance far in the tournament. Even in the former era, we were known for our defense. But, in only one of the 14 years did we average less than 73 points a game, so we had more balance. I still think this years team will prove to be an upgrade offensively. But, it looks like there will be growing pains before we find our mojo. Clark finally gave us a glimpse the other night. When he gets comfortable, things may really open up.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:02 PM   #57
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How many times/ways can we debate and discuss the same topic. I value all your opinions but holy hell, you can only beat a dead horse once.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:31 PM   #58
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How many times/ways can we debate and discuss the same topic. I value all your opinions but holy hell, you can only beat a dead horse once.
went to Mio's Friday thought I would see you there. You going to game Wed.?
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