OT: Anybody see Montrezl Harrell last night?

bearcat jeff · 11-16-2014, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat_NTS

Cincinnati has made 1 Final Four since 1963. That is not elite.

I have argued this for years. There is a differene between very good and elite. Most of the lingering disdain for the program is from those with an inflated view of where the program was. They get mad and say you're disrespecting the past when you point it out. I loved that era, but as I have said over and over, the only place that viewed UC as elite was Cincinnati.

It was a fun time and UC was on the cusp of taking that step between 92-96 but just couldn't sustain any postseason success after that.

CinciSportsFan · 11-16-2014, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcat jeff

I have argued this for years. There is a differene between very good and elite. Most of the lingering disdain for the program is from those with an inflated view of where the program was. They get mad and say you're disrespecting the past when you point it out. I loved that era, but as I have said over and over, the only place that viewed UC as elite was Cincinnati.

It was a fun time and UC was on the cusp of taking that step between 92-96 but just couldn't sustain any postseason success after that.

I'm confident Cronin can change that.

bearcat jeff · 11-16-2014, 09:38 PM

The last 9 years of the Huggs era saw 1 Sweet 16 and the rest were 1st or 2nd round exits and those years included a 1 seed, 2 - 2 seeds, and 2 - 3 seeds along with 1 - 4 seed. There was certainly the opportunity take that step it simply never happened. Again great, fun years but lost opportunities.

I think the program is re-entering where it was during those 9 years, and in the next 2-3 years will take another step upward.

L-T · 11-16-2014, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcat jeff

The last 9 years of the Huggs era saw 1 Sweet 16 and the rest were 1st or 2nd round exits and those years included a 1 seed, 2 - 2 seeds, and 2 - 3 seeds along with 1 - 4 seed. There was certainly the opportunity take that step it simply never happened. Again great, fun years but lost opportunities.

I think the program is re-entering where it was during those 9 years, and in the next 2-3 years will take another step upward.

Arguing your point using about 2% of the actual facts is like OJ arguing that he was innocent because the glove didn't fit. There's been very little comedy on TV tonight. Thank God we have this Forum. This is some funny stuff on this thread.

L-T · 11-17-2014, 01:53 AM

http://www.gobearcats.com/datadump/s...y/history.html

All you "negative" naysayers on here need to contact our athletic department and have them correct our university's basketball website. They seem to agree with L-T. If you don't believe it, click on the attachment. Read it and weep!!! Pay very close attention to the very first sentence which our school uses to describe our program. The last 7 paragraphs are dedicated to the years that you all describe as very good, but disappointing, and certainly not elite.

The 1st sentence obviously sets the theme for the story of our program, and the paragraphs that follow support that theme. Funny how there's not a single word or paragraph about the present regime. Why is that? I've been deemed negative because I believe our program should live up to it's proud tradition, which the university agrees with me to be one of the elite programs in college basketball history...or at least it was.

So, I think we can now safely put this argument to bed. I'm sure the university would greatly appreciate its fanbase's acknowledgement of its proud history and tradition, and its place among the "elite" of college basketball! Lets not be satisfied with anything short of "quickly" reclaiming our place among the elite of college basketball and getting back into one of the power conferences where we belong!

L-T · 11-17-2014, 02:15 AM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ll-time/page/2

A 2012 article declaring us as one of the top 15 programs in college basketball history.

L-T · 11-17-2014, 02:35 AM

Here's an article from one month ago that still lists us as one of the top 10 programs of all time.

http://gojoebruin.com/2014/10/21/fan...me-ucla-third/

Here's an ESPN Poll asking fans to rank the 15 best basketball programs all time. They only give the fans 15 choices. The UC Bearcats are among he 15!!!

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post...hoops-programs

Com'on people. Be proud of the fact that we're one of the "elite" programs of all time. Don't downplay it. Don't understate it. Don't settle for anything less. Embrace it! Don't try to make a case why we aren't "elite". Let's be "positive" about our program!!!

#BearcatNation · 11-17-2014, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-T

http://www.gobearcats.com/datadump/s...y/history.html

All you "negative" naysayers on here need to contact our athletic department and have them correct our university's basketball website. They seem to agree with L-T. If you don't believe it, click on the attachment. Read it and weep!!! Pay very close attention to the very first sentence which our school uses to describe our program. The last 7 paragraphs are dedicated to the years that you all describe as very good, but disappointing, and certainly not elite.

The 1st sentence obviously sets the theme for the story of our program, and the paragraphs that follow support that theme. Funny how there's not a single word or paragraph about the present regime. Why is that? I've been deemed negative because I believe our program should live up to it's proud tradition, which the university agrees with me to be one of the elite programs in college basketball history...or at least it was.

So, I think we can now safely put this argument to bed. I'm sure the university would greatly appreciate its fanbase's acknowledgement of its proud history and tradition, and its place among the "elite" of college basketball! Lets not be satisfied with anything short of "quickly" reclaiming our place among the elite of college basketball and getting back into one of the power conferences where we belong!

Because it was written at least 10 years ago, and never updated. There's a lot of old, archived files on gobearcats.com.

JackBauer151 · 11-17-2014, 07:37 AM

I sit on both sides of the fence on this issue. When you look at the numbers there is no question Cincinnati is a top 25 program of all time. (Which is where we have been the last 5 years). However its also important to discuss Cincinnati basketball in the context of recent history. Have not had a national championship in over 50 years and havent had a final 4 in over 20. Those are not "elite" results. Now we have won a lot of games over that time and as a fan I am very proud of that. I will continue to boast that fact even without success in March. A single elimination tournament can dramatically change the perception of how good a program is. This program as it stands right now is not "elite" and whose fault is that? It's the administration's. Plain and simple the people in charge at UC have not invested in Cincinnati basketball to the degree that is required to maintain an "elite" status. Now whether that is because they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't is up for debate. I just know that they have not. When the head coach has to do fundraising for his own plane to recruit, fundraising for new locker rooms, fundraising for the practice gym, gets passed over for funding for football when the program has only been relevant for 5 years (yes I understand why), plays in a multi purpose gym not a basketball arena, and has one of the smallest budgets in their conference, it is easy to see why the program has not been able to produce "elite" results. Top programs just in the Midwest dont deal with those issues. Even Chris Mack has a damn plane to recruit. So my point is that context matters. I honesty think Cronin has overachieved with the challenges he faces compared to a lot of his competitors, and it's why I give him a long leash when it comes to March. Cincinnati is most certainly one of the best programs of all time but a lot needs to happen before we even have the chance to become "elite" consistently in today's landscape of college basketball.

(I also think some of those things are starting to happen. New arena, new locker rooms, revitalized campus, attention to marketing as there is an 8 year high in season ticket sales, consistent winning and recruiting classes, seemingly full support from AD and President, and full student support. I think the train is just leaving the station but have to execute all of these things well and consistently.)

WAITE HOYT 2 · 11-17-2014, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer151

I sit on both sides of the fence on this issue. When you look at the numbers there is no question Cincinnati is a top 25 program of all time. (Which is where we have been the last 5 years). However its also important to discuss Cincinnati basketball in the context of recent history. Have not had a national championship in over 50 years and havent had a final 4 in over 20. Those are not "elite" results. Now we have won a lot of games over that time and as a fan I am very proud of that. I will continue to boast that fact even without success in March. A single elimination tournament can dramatically change the perception of how good a program is. This program as it stands right now is not "elite" and whose fault is that? It's the administration's. Plain and simple the people in charge at UC have not invested in Cincinnati basketball to the degree that is required to maintain an "elite" status. Now whether that is because they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't is up for debate. I just know that they have not. When the head coach has to do fundraising for his own plane to recruit, fundraising for new locker rooms, fundraising for the practice gym, gets passed over for funding for football when the program has only been relevant for 5 years (yes I understand why), plays in a multi purpose gym not a basketball arena, and has one of the smallest budgets in their conference, it is easy to see why the program has not been able to produce "elite" results. Top programs just in the Midwest dont deal with those issues. Even Chris Mack has a damn plane to recruit. So my point is that context matters. I honesty think Cronin has overachieved with the challenges he faces compared to a lot of his competitors, and it's why I give him a long leash when it comes to March. Cincinnati is most certainly one of the best programs of all time but a lot needs to happen before we even have the chance to become "elite" consistently in today's landscape of college basketball.

(I also think some of those things are starting to happen. New arena, new locker rooms, revitalized campus, attention to marketing as there is an 8 year high in season ticket sales, consistent winning and recruiting classes, seemingly full support from AD and President, and full student support. I think the train is just leaving the station but have to execute all of these things well and consistently.)

Very well put Jack

11-16-2014, 09:38 PM	#23
bearcat jeff Hoops Moderator Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,502	The last 9 years of the Huggs era saw 1 Sweet 16 and the rest were 1st or 2nd round exits and those years included a 1 seed, 2 - 2 seeds, and 2 - 3 seeds along with 1 - 4 seed. There was certainly the opportunity take that step it simply never happened. Again great, fun years but lost opportunities. I think the program is re-entering where it was during those 9 years, and in the next 2-3 years will take another step upward. Last edited by bearcat jeff; 11-16-2014 at 09:43 PM.

11-17-2014, 07:37 AM	#29
JackBauer151 Epic Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 2,008	I sit on both sides of the fence on this issue. When you look at the numbers there is no question Cincinnati is a top 25 program of all time. (Which is where we have been the last 5 years). However its also important to discuss Cincinnati basketball in the context of recent history. Have not had a national championship in over 50 years and havent had a final 4 in over 20. Those are not "elite" results. Now we have won a lot of games over that time and as a fan I am very proud of that. I will continue to boast that fact even without success in March. A single elimination tournament can dramatically change the perception of how good a program is. This program as it stands right now is not "elite" and whose fault is that? It's the administration's. Plain and simple the people in charge at UC have not invested in Cincinnati basketball to the degree that is required to maintain an "elite" status. Now whether that is because they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't is up for debate. I just know that they have not. When the head coach has to do fundraising for his own plane to recruit, fundraising for new locker rooms, fundraising for the practice gym, gets passed over for funding for football when the program has only been relevant for 5 years (yes I understand why), plays in a multi purpose gym not a basketball arena, and has one of the smallest budgets in their conference, it is easy to see why the program has not been able to produce "elite" results. Top programs just in the Midwest dont deal with those issues. Even Chris Mack has a damn plane to recruit. So my point is that context matters. I honesty think Cronin has overachieved with the challenges he faces compared to a lot of his competitors, and it's why I give him a long leash when it comes to March. Cincinnati is most certainly one of the best programs of all time but a lot needs to happen before we even have the chance to become "elite" consistently in today's landscape of college basketball. (I also think some of those things are starting to happen. New arena, new locker rooms, revitalized campus, attention to marketing as there is an 8 year high in season ticket sales, consistent winning and recruiting classes, seemingly full support from AD and President, and full student support. I think the train is just leaving the station but have to execute all of these things well and consistently.) Last edited by JackBauer151; 11-17-2014 at 07:48 AM.

11-17-2014, 01:53 AM	#25
L-T Epic Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 2,280	http://www.gobearcats.com/datadump/s...y/history.html All you "negative" naysayers on here need to contact our athletic department and have them correct our university's basketball website. They seem to agree with L-T. If you don't believe it, click on the attachment. Read it and weep!!! Pay very close attention to the very first sentence which our school uses to describe our program. The last 7 paragraphs are dedicated to the years that you all describe as very good, but disappointing, and certainly not elite. The 1st sentence obviously sets the theme for the story of our program, and the paragraphs that follow support that theme. Funny how there's not a single word or paragraph about the present regime. Why is that? I've been deemed negative because I believe our program should live up to it's proud tradition, which the university agrees with me to be one of the elite programs in college basketball history...or at least it was. So, I think we can now safely put this argument to bed. I'm sure the university would greatly appreciate its fanbase's acknowledgement of its proud history and tradition, and its place among the "elite" of college basketball! Lets not be satisfied with anything short of "quickly" reclaiming our place among the elite of college basketball and getting back into one of the power conferences where we belong!

11-17-2014, 02:15 AM	#26
L-T Epic Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 2,280	http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ll-time/page/2 A 2012 article declaring us as one of the top 15 programs in college basketball history.

11-17-2014, 02:35 AM	#27
L-T Epic Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 2,280	Here's an article from one month ago that still lists us as one of the top 10 programs of all time. http://gojoebruin.com/2014/10/21/fan...me-ucla-third/ Here's an ESPN Poll asking fans to rank the 15 best basketball programs all time. They only give the fans 15 choices. The UC Bearcats are among he 15!!! http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post...hoops-programs Com'on people. Be proud of the fact that we're one of the "elite" programs of all time. Don't downplay it. Don't understate it. Don't settle for anything less. Embrace it! Don't try to make a case why we aren't "elite". Let's be "positive" about our program!!!