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View Poll Results: Who is exceeding your expectations the most? | |||
Cumberland | 6 | 16.67% | |
Williams | 18 | 50.00% | |
Brooks | 5 | 13.89% | |
Jenifer | 7 | 19.44% | |
Scott | 0 | 0% | |
Broome | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll |
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02-08-2019, 08:06 AM | #31 | |
Elite Member
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Quote:
It means in the minutes they are actually in the game, Jenifer ends a possession as often as Fredericks. Of course Jenifer has a way different role. One is a pg, the other a hybrid 3/4 and one has played waaaay more minutes than the other and been a lot more productive. The above was not a measure of how productive they were with their possessions, just how many possessions they actually used when on the court. |
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02-08-2019, 08:22 AM | #32 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
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Quote:
Quadri's usage was 24.3 two years ago. |
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02-08-2019, 08:29 AM | #33 |
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Torvik has a metric called PRPG, which is basically offensive efficiency adjusted for usage rate.
4.5 Cumberland 4.0 Jenifer 2.8 Scott 2.4 Brooks 2.4 Williams 1.8 Broome 0.7 Moore 0.6 Diarra 0.5 Johnson 0.5 Fredericks This is a more useful tool for evaluating players' overall offensive contributions to the team. Usage rate is a useful tool for determining who is trying to create and force the issue. |
02-08-2019, 08:38 AM | #34 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,329
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Quote:
i think people are getting caught up in thinking saying a guy having a lower usage is somehow talking down on the player. i think ervins and i are just pointing out how ORTG works. just cause you have a high usage rate doesn't mean you're any good, it could mean you're terrible but selfish so you shoot a lot and turn it over a lot. without running through all the years im guessing Jermaine Sanders in 2014 had one of the highest, if not the highest ORTG for any SF in the cronin era. i dont think anybody would ever consider him a great offensive player. ORTG just isn't a stat you can compare when usage rates are in different ranges. It wasn't set up to work like that. |
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02-08-2019, 08:48 AM | #35 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Quote:
Advanced stats can tell you about a player's individual skill set and how to build a roster and develop strategy based on that. They can't really give you concrete conclusions about how much better one player is than another. Same is true in basketball, where ORtg and Usage tell you certain things about a player, but not necessarily how valuable they really are at winning games. |
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02-08-2019, 08:59 AM | #36 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,183
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And so you’re bringing up usage to compare why is ORTG is so high, but wouldn’t his usage as be lower because of how little he turns it over? He’s a primary ball handler when he is on the court, just cause he doesn’t shoot a lot or turn it over doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the ball in his hands a lot
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02-08-2019, 09:11 AM | #37 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
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Quote:
The link to explain how he gets there is interesting https://www.bigtengeeks.com/new-stat-porpagatu/ |
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02-08-2019, 09:27 AM | #38 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
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Quote:
I understand the concept. As Sedziobs mentioned there are other algorithms that do a better job of figuring out the overall value of a player without placing too much emphasis on ORTG or usage etc |
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02-19-2019, 08:35 AM | #39 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,298
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Revisiting Jarron. He started the season in OOC averaging 16 ppg. He's now at 19.3 ppg. His conference avg is 22.6.
Over his last 8 games he is averaging 24.5. He has been trending up for quite some time and with the added focus on him from every team to figure out some way...ANY WAY...to stop him may be more impressive than just his totals alone. He's been nothing short of unbelievable all else considered. It seems as though Brooks, Williams, and Jenifer although their improvement has been impressive have reached somewhat of a peak while Cumberland continues to seemingly show even a higher gear. He's knocking down 3's with a defender in his pocket and another defender nearby waiting on the pump fake. He's distributing and rebounding at a high clip. If they only considered conference play he would be making a strong claim for first team All American status. 22.6 ppg, 5.5 rebounds, and 4.1 assists. Compare that to SK All American senior year of 20.6 ppg, 4.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists. Even with OOC in the stats Cumberland is at 19.3 ppg, 4.2 rebounds, and 3.5 assists. Those are comparable given the extra assist makes up for the point differential. And it seems he is likely to keep those numbers on the up trend. I am not sure he is getting the credit he really deserves. We almost just take it for granted now what he is doing is somehow expected. It shouldn't be expected. Not with the amount of attention he gets from the opposing team. We should expect at least some level of egg laying here or there. It's just been an incredible run of basketball!! |
02-19-2019, 09:18 AM | #40 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,725
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Quote:
I agree that some of these guys have leveled off. You see some flashes from the three role players you mention and others on the team but nothing compared to Cumberland. Williams quietly had a nice game on Sunday. Quietly besides his dunk LOL. Would love to see him knock down a few threes during this last stretch of games. The one that is really stepping up and is playing more like we all thought he would be/hitting more shots is Cane. We need him to keep performing. His 3 point % is slowly climbing. I think it's too late to really fix his 3 pt percentage but hopefully he will get to 30% or so. I just hope he continues to score and give us the spark we need off the bench. |
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