@SMU

[TheRealMick]

Brannen likes short jitterbugs at PG, that’s killing us defensively just as much Vogt is. We need our short PG to get stronger or we need some with length. We don’t pressure the ball nor get deflections like we use to. If we practice D 95% of time in practice, whoever leading these practices need be fired immediately. Our best basketball right now is AAU ball. I thought we hired X and O genius?

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by TheRealMick

Skyblade, I love dou also and you called out Brannen for playing Vogt last year EARLY! You get hella credit for seeing that. For love of all of us, PLEASE stop with promoting our boy as all conference. He just doesn’t get it brother and it’s time move on from him if he doesn’t progress as season goes along. 25+min his for taken right now let’s see if he takes them. I’m starting think he a scrub though.

Diarra played well last night, he's not a star but he played solid. Had one silly foul and one pass that should have been a TO but Eason bailed him out. But he was in for our first half run to get back in it and did a very good job cutting off drives. He needs playing time to learn, but so do most of our guys.

Look at the NBA, there are quite a few guys who earn a living by defending the 1-5 and rebounding, even if they are capable of little more than making a dunk on offense. I've watched a couple UCLA games this year and Jalen Hill is considered an NBA prospect because of that fact.

Not saying Diarra will make the NBA (though I still say he has the athleticism to play there, but he needs to improve mentally a lot). But a big who can defend/rebound and just not turn the ball over on offense is far more valuable at the NBA and the high-major college level than a big who is skilled on offense but can't defend or rebound well. That's why I've said from the beginning that Diarra can become a valuable contributor and Vogt should be on the bench.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by TheRealMick

Brannen likes short jitterbugs at PG, that’s killing us defensively just as much Vogt is. We need our short PG to get stronger or we need some with length. We don’t pressure the ball nor get deflections like we use to. If we practice D 95% of time in practice, whoever leading these practices need be fired immediately. Our best basketball right now is AAU ball. I thought we hired X and O genius?

I'm wondering how long it will take before Mason gets some minutes. Is he on a minutes limit by the medical staff right now? He has the ability to play PG and has more height/strength (and can make a three). Saunders had a horrible game last night and despite his speed, has issues staying in front of his man. DeJulius is better and provides rebounding/passing, but he's not exactly the best defender and might have trouble beating McNeal or Moore in a 3-point shooting contest.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Diarra played well last night, he's not a star but he played solid. Had one silly foul and one pass that should have been a TO but Eason bailed him out. But he was in for our first half run to get back in it and did a very good job cutting off drives. He needs playing time to learn, but so do most of our guys.

Look at the NBA, there are quite a few guys who earn a living by defending the 1-5 and rebounding, even if they are capable of little more than making a dunk on offense. I've watched a couple UCLA games this year and Jalen Hill is considered an NBA prospect because of that fact.

Not saying Diarra will make the NBA (though I still say he has the athleticism to play there, but he needs to improve mentally a lot). But a big who can defend/rebound and just not turn the ball over on offense is far more valuable at the NBA and the high-major college level than a big who is skilled on offense but can't defend or rebound well. That's why I've said from the beginning that Diarra can become a valuable contributor and Vogt should be on the bench.

the guy finished with 3 rebs, 0 pts, a couple decent defensive plays and some dumb plays. Does anything about that say NBA to you? And you’re talking about how good he was. And he’s 23 years old.

Not trying to be mean but come on man

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

the guy finished with 3 rebs, 0 pts, a couple decent defensive plays and some dumb plays. Does anything about that say NBA to you? And you’re talking about how good he was. And he’s 23 years old.

Not trying to be mean but come on man

Dou should definitely play before Vogt. Skyblade was right on that one. With Vogt, I feel like we have to completely change everything to cater to him. Dou you just put him in, and we can still play how we want to

[TheRealMick]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

the guy finished with 3 rebs, 0 pts, a couple decent defensive plays and some dumb plays. Does anything about that say NBA to you? And you’re talking about how good he was. And he’s 23 years old.

Not trying to be mean but come on man

Lol leave him alone. Let em keep dreaming .

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

the guy finished with 3 rebs, 0 pts, a couple decent defensive plays and some dumb plays. Does anything about that say NBA to you? And you’re talking about how good he was. And he’s 23 years old.

Not trying to be mean but come on man

Stats don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to big men. Look at the first half, SMU goes on a 10-3 run with Vogt in the game. We try to press, but SMU just throws it in to the guy who Vogt is covering.

Then Diarra comes into the game. We immediately force back-to-back TO's. Did Diarra force the TO's? No. But he did guard his man (and provide some help to others). Instead of SMU having an easy outlet pass to their big against the press, all of their players were being guarded and it led to them making mistakes.

Just one small example of how Diarra (and Eason) impact the game in many more ways than Vogt that don't show up on the stat sheet.

I've watched pretty much every UC game of every season for the last 5+ years and watch a fair amount of college basketball outside of UC (mostly AAC games, but also some UCLA and WVU as well as top teams). Diarra is excellent at cutting off drives and pick-and-roll defense. Earlier this year Brannen said Diarra graded out as elite in pick-and-roll defense in practice. It's a small thing, but extremely valuable, even at the pro-level. If he cuts guys off before they get to the basket or take a shot, he doesn't get a chance at a block, but it's a bigger defensive impact.

Diarra has a lot to work on, but nothing that's not correctable. Needs to get better at defending 1-vs-1 against another big, to commit fewer silly fouls, get more comfortable on offense among other things. Given he has relatively little playing time, it will probably be corrected with playing time. Look at our bugs under Cronin, they had a history of being foul prone and making silly mistakes, then correcting it once they became starters and got some experience under their belts.

Diarra may not become a star, but he's not too far from becoming an elite defender. And from a center that's far more valuable than offense. Though ideally you want a guy like Eason - who can do both. But I'm not sure Eason has the size (nor desire) to be a long term starter at center.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Stats don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to big men. Look at the first half, SMU goes on a 10-3 run with Vogt in the game. We try to press, but SMU just throws it in to the guy who Vogt is covering.

Then Diarra comes into the game. We immediately force back-to-back TO's. Did Diarra force the TO's? No. But he did guard his man (and provide some help to others). Instead of SMU having an easy outlet pass to their big against the press, all of their players were being guarded and it led to them making mistakes.

Just one small example of how Diarra (and Eason) impact the game in many more ways than Vogt that don't show up on the stat sheet.

I've watched pretty much every UC game of every season for the last 5+ years and watch a fair amount of college basketball outside of UC (mostly AAC games, but also some UCLA and WVU as well as top teams). Diarra is excellent at cutting off drives and pick-and-roll defense. Earlier this year Brannen said Diarra graded out as elite in pick-and-roll defense in practice. It's a small thing, but extremely valuable, even at the pro-level. If he cuts guys off before they get to the basket or take a shot, he doesn't get a chance at a block, but it's a bigger defensive impact.

Diarra has a lot to work on, but nothing that's not correctable. Needs to get better at defending 1-vs-1 against another big, to commit fewer silly fouls, get more comfortable on offense among other things. Given he has relatively little playing time, it will probably be corrected with playing time. Look at our bugs under Cronin, they had a history of being foul prone and making silly mistakes, then correcting it once they became starters and got some experience under their belts.

Diarra may not become a star, but he's not too far from becoming an elite defender. And from a center that's far more valuable than offense. Though ideally you want a guy like Eason - who can do both. But I'm not sure Eason has the size (nor desire) to be a long term starter at center.

He’s just not mentally there. Lot of that is instinct. You don’t really develop that. I hope he comes back next year, I think he can play a role. Especially since we most likely won’t have a big ready by then but I don’t see him improving that much, I hope he does

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

He’s just not mentally there. Lot of that is instinct. You don’t really develop that. I hope he comes back next year, I think he can play a role. Especially since we most likely won’t have a big ready by then but I don’t see him improving that much, I hope he does

I believe we've had this discussion before. Instincts very much are developed. Just most guys develop them before they reach the college level. Dou started playing basketball very late relatively to most guys and comes from a country where basketball isn't really a big deal. He has a lot of catching up to do. Giving him playing time is the best way to help him develop those instincts.

Maybe he never will, even with playing time. But considering Brannen has been willing to be far more patient (and give far more playing time to) two players in Vogt and Rap who are worse players (and have worse "instincts" on defense), I don't see why he hasn't given Diarra much of a shot.

[Bcatfollower]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I continue to have trouble believing that Vogt wasn't meant to be a starter (or at least get significant minutes). If that is true, why did Brannen recruit so many guys with the same body type (Vogt, Sorolla, Rap, Lakhin). I also have trouble believing that Nsoseme would have left had he been told he'd be the starter.

It also doesn't explain Brannen's dedication to playing Vogt. Diarra was outplaying Vogt at the end of last season, he outplayed Vogt last night. But who has been given every possible chance this season, was the first off the bench last night? Who played more second half minutes? Vogt. Look at how much longer of a leash Rap was given than Diarra.

To me it seems that Brannen has had trouble understanding the level of athleticism required from a big to play at this level and also in his system. It doesn't make much sense because guys like Vogt also don't seem to fit into his "94 feet both ways" philosophy. It does seem like he is slowly changing. But it also seems like Brannen being very slow to adjust is a theme.

The smaller lineup (and the Diarra + Eason lineup) did quite well, we may struggle against bigger teams (WSU being one of them). Hopefully Brannen has finally learned the lesson that Vogt doesn't belong on the floor.

Dou barely outplayed Vogt. I’m not a fan of either getting major minutes. Vogt doesn’t have the athleticism and Dou can’t understand how to play basketball/to waiting to happen.