20-21 thread

**waterhead** · 06-23-2020, 01:13 PM

I am going to try and make some sense out of what to expect this upcoming season although it's hard with so many new pieces and losing our 2 best players (among others). There is a lot of talent and versatility but we will be short on system experience and a tough schedule.

Gonna start at the 5 spot for now.

We lost Sorolla mid season but we return the top 2 at the spot arguably in Vogt and Dou. We also add the option of Rap as a guy we can use when we want to go with 2 more versatile or mobile bigs.

So we have a back to the basket big in Vogt with slow feet who can put the ball in the hole close range and protect the paint fairly well but not the perimeter. He can body up on bigs with size as well. Boxes out well but doesn't chase down as many boards as we would like. Can't shoot outside of about 5 ft.

We have Dou who can leap out of the building and chases boards pretty well (but could box out better) and has a nice stroke from downtown. He can defend the perimeter much better but may not be as good at putting a body on a big with size. Seems to have picked up the system better later in the year. That's a nice one two punch complimentary pair.

Rap is a wildcard with some skills who can let us play in a variety of ways and add some scoring pop or another go to option if other players are struggling. He's basically a 4 who's played some 5 and should mostly play 4 for us. Can shoot and move with the ball but defense seems to be lackluster.

That's about as versatile as you would hope to be at the 5 spot. Offensively and defensively you have most options covered if you need to adjust in game plans.

In addition...if we ever have injury issues or major foul trouble we also have guys to plug in at the 4 who can move someone else to the 5. Eason, Lakhin, and Davenport (if nobody red shirts). Overall we should be in better shape at the 5 this year for all the reasons listed above.

Queens_NYC · 06-24-2020, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhead

I am going to try and make some sense out of what to expect this upcoming season although it's hard with so many new pieces and losing our 2 best players (among others). There is a lot of talent and versatility but we will be short on system experience and a tough schedule.

Gonna start at the 5 spot for now.

We lost Sorolla mid season but we return the top 2 at the spot arguably in Vogt and Dou. We also add the option of Rap as a guy we can use when we want to go with 2 more versatile or mobile bigs.

So we have a back to the basket big in Vogt with slow feet who can put the ball in the hole close range and protect the paint fairly well but not the perimeter. He can body up on bigs with size as well. Boxes out well but doesn't chase down as many boards as we would like. Can't shoot outside of about 5 ft.

We have Dou who can leap out of the building and chases boards pretty well (but could box out better) and has a nice stroke from downtown. He can defend the perimeter much better but may not be as good at putting a body on a big with size. Seems to have picked up the system better later in the year. That's a nice one two punch complimentary pair.

Rap is a wildcard with some skills who can let us play in a variety of ways and add some scoring pop or another go to option if other players are struggling. He's basically a 4 who's played some 5 and should mostly play 4 for us. Can shoot and move with the ball but defense seems to be lackluster.

That's about as versatile as you would hope to be at the 5 spot. Offensively and defensively you have most options covered if you need to adjust in game plans.

In addition...if we ever have injury issues or major foul trouble we also have guys to plug in at the 4 who can move someone else to the 5. Eason, Lakhin, and Davenport (if nobody red shirts). Overall we should be in better shape at the 5 this year for all the reasons listed above.

I would rank our situation at the 5 position as top 2/3 in the conference going into next season (UCF and SMU can also make similar claims).

As modern basketball changes however, this does not provide the same competitive advantage as it did 20 years ago.

Brannen and his staff will have their hands full analyzing match-ups on both ends of the court involving Vogt, Dou, and Rap and when it makes most sense to have any 2 of those 3 on the court at the same time.

itsamemario · 06-24-2020, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queens_NYC

I would rank our situation at the 5 position as top 2/3 in the conference going into next season (UCF and SMU can also make similar claims).

As modern basketball changes however, this does not provide the same competitive advantage as it did 20 years ago.

Brannen and his staff will have their hands full analyzing match-ups on both ends of the court involving Vogt, Dou, and Rap and when it makes most sense to have any 2 of those 3 on the court at the same time.

UCF? Other than Collin Smith, who do they have?

Queens_NYC · 06-24-2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsamemario

UCF? Other than Collin Smith, who do they have?

6'11, 4th year back-up, Avery Diggs.

itsamemario · 06-24-2020, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queens_NYC

6'11, 4th year back-up, Avery Diggs.

oops. It was early and i read your post wrong. I thought it said UCF is top 3 at every position ....i should sleep more

skyblade · 06-24-2020, 04:37 PM

I mostly agree with your assessment of the players, but I am less optimistic about our 5.

There are several reasons I have for doubt, but we will see how things progress.

First, I am not confident Vogt will be back. He retained a firm that represents international players pretty much exclusively. He's not going to play in the NBA (or even the G-League) and doesn't really have anything that he can add to his game that will make him look better to the NBA - or even internationally - next year. He can make some small improvements, but if he's looking to maximize his career earnings he's probably better off going to play internationally and not coming back here. Covid may make coming back less attractive as well (potentially playing games with no fans). There's also the possibility that Diarra will take his starting role, will Vogt want to come back to be a backup?

Second, Rap is a pretty major unknown. He had a good year on offense as a Sophomore and a poor one as a Junior. His defense/rebounding (especially at the 4) may be bad enough at times (especially if Vogt is at the 5) that we can't keep him on the floor. He looks pretty capable on offense, but the jump in competition level won't be easy to make. A guy who looks like a star at a low-major more often than not, ends up no better than a role player at a high-major.

An additional issue for Rap (who will be learning two positions), Eason and Lahkin (though I assume he will red shirt) is the late start to practice season. We saw Diarra struggle learning two positions last year, Rap has more basketball experience but still has to learn both positions in Brannen's system, which may not happen by the start of the season.

My main concern with Diarra is that he never really learned to play the 4 last year (or at least never played it well). He was consistently better playing the 5, if that's true this year than we may have issues at the 4. He should rotate well with Vogt at the 5 though, he was our best center for the last month or so and I expect that to continue next year (regardless of if Vogt goes pro or not).

**waterhead** · 06-24-2020, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queens_NYC

I would rank our situation at the 5 position as top 2/3 in the conference going into next season (UCF and SMU can also make similar claims).

As modern basketball changes however, this does not provide the same competitive advantage as it did 20 years ago.

Brannen and his staff will have their hands full analyzing match-ups on both ends of the court involving Vogt, Dou, and Rap and when it makes most sense to have any 2 of those 3 on the court at the same time.

True...but if your bigs can shoot it does help and I like the versatility of lineups we will have access to. Even on the wing we will have guys who can either shoot or slash/drive. We have played many years with some zero to one dimensional players (offensively) and now most of our guys have more than one skill they can use.

Starting to see the vision now

cincyguy13 · 07-01-2020, 01:30 PM

Also, I think these colleges have to find a way to play fball and bball. Financially they can’t miss the whole season. Even if it’s no fans, or 1/3 fans. They need the money. Not sure how the tv contracts pay I’d they don’t play. Even if they have to push both seasons to the start of 2021, I think they will try their hardest to play

Queens_NYC · 08-04-2020, 07:36 PM

Saunders is the freshman who I have the lowest expectations for this year.

sirthought · 08-04-2020, 09:17 PM

Yeah I don't see Saunders getting much floor time, but that's just a guess. He does look like a good recruit to develop.

My thinking is he's going to be facing tougher competition and it's the first year learning a different level of offensive strategy. He's going to need to hit the weights and just do a ton of repetitions. His outside shot is only okay, so that will take some time to build up confidence at this level.

Let's hope we get to see some play to really put in some honest speculation.

06-23-2020, 01:13 PM	#1
waterhead Senior Moderator Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,298	20-21 thread I am going to try and make some sense out of what to expect this upcoming season although it's hard with so many new pieces and losing our 2 best players (among others). There is a lot of talent and versatility but we will be short on system experience and a tough schedule. Gonna start at the 5 spot for now. We lost Sorolla mid season but we return the top 2 at the spot arguably in Vogt and Dou. We also add the option of Rap as a guy we can use when we want to go with 2 more versatile or mobile bigs. So we have a back to the basket big in Vogt with slow feet who can put the ball in the hole close range and protect the paint fairly well but not the perimeter. He can body up on bigs with size as well. Boxes out well but doesn't chase down as many boards as we would like. Can't shoot outside of about 5 ft. We have Dou who can leap out of the building and chases boards pretty well (but could box out better) and has a nice stroke from downtown. He can defend the perimeter much better but may not be as good at putting a body on a big with size. Seems to have picked up the system better later in the year. That's a nice one two punch complimentary pair. Rap is a wildcard with some skills who can let us play in a variety of ways and add some scoring pop or another go to option if other players are struggling. He's basically a 4 who's played some 5 and should mostly play 4 for us. Can shoot and move with the ball but defense seems to be lackluster. That's about as versatile as you would hope to be at the 5 spot. Offensively and defensively you have most options covered if you need to adjust in game plans. In addition...if we ever have injury issues or major foul trouble we also have guys to plug in at the 4 who can move someone else to the 5. Eason, Lakhin, and Davenport (if nobody red shirts). Overall we should be in better shape at the 5 this year for all the reasons listed above.

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06-24-2020, 04:37 PM	#6
skyblade Epic Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,790	I mostly agree with your assessment of the players, but I am less optimistic about our 5. There are several reasons I have for doubt, but we will see how things progress. First, I am not confident Vogt will be back. He retained a firm that represents international players pretty much exclusively. He's not going to play in the NBA (or even the G-League) and doesn't really have anything that he can add to his game that will make him look better to the NBA - or even internationally - next year. He can make some small improvements, but if he's looking to maximize his career earnings he's probably better off going to play internationally and not coming back here. Covid may make coming back less attractive as well (potentially playing games with no fans). There's also the possibility that Diarra will take his starting role, will Vogt want to come back to be a backup? Second, Rap is a pretty major unknown. He had a good year on offense as a Sophomore and a poor one as a Junior. His defense/rebounding (especially at the 4) may be bad enough at times (especially if Vogt is at the 5) that we can't keep him on the floor. He looks pretty capable on offense, but the jump in competition level won't be easy to make. A guy who looks like a star at a low-major more often than not, ends up no better than a role player at a high-major. An additional issue for Rap (who will be learning two positions), Eason and Lahkin (though I assume he will red shirt) is the late start to practice season. We saw Diarra struggle learning two positions last year, Rap has more basketball experience but still has to learn both positions in Brannen's system, which may not happen by the start of the season. My main concern with Diarra is that he never really learned to play the 4 last year (or at least never played it well). He was consistently better playing the 5, if that's true this year than we may have issues at the 4. He should rotate well with Vogt at the 5 though, he was our best center for the last month or so and I expect that to continue next year (regardless of if Vogt goes pro or not).

07-01-2020, 01:30 PM	#8
cincyguy13 Epic Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 4,633	Also, I think these colleges have to find a way to play fball and bball. Financially they can’t miss the whole season. Even if it’s no fans, or 1/3 fans. They need the money. Not sure how the tv contracts pay I’d they don’t play. Even if they have to push both seasons to the start of 2021, I think they will try their hardest to play

08-04-2020, 07:36 PM	#9
Queens_NYC Epic Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,655	Saunders is the freshman who I have the lowest expectations for this year.

08-04-2020, 09:17 PM	#10
sirthought Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Down by river Posts: 317	Yeah I don't see Saunders getting much floor time, but that's just a guess. He does look like a good recruit to develop. My thinking is he's going to be facing tougher competition and it's the first year learning a different level of offensive strategy. He's going to need to hit the weights and just do a ton of repetitions. His outside shot is only okay, so that will take some time to build up confidence at this level. Let's hope we get to see some play to really put in some honest speculation.