Xavier

WAITE HOYT 2 · 12-13-2015, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCBearcats

^^^^^^ This is the perfect post.

up tempo looked good against cupcakes but against better competition we look very average. we do not make enough shots. Fact is we are the not a very athletic team either. Probably our three most athletic players are turnover machines. Ellis,Shaq and KJ.they combined for 11 of 16 TO's. Walking the ball up the floor versus running is not the issue. We got out played by a better team with better players. Their 1-3-1 zone killed us.

cincrulz11 · 12-13-2015, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle

Sure some slow paced teams can win (mainly in the regular season).

This is just absolute bullcrap. I posted the stats before so I'll post them again.

Of the teams that made the sweet 16 last year 10 had a AdjT of 150th or lower, 6 220 or lower.

4 elite 8 teams had an AdjT of 223 or slower.

Final 4 had 3 teams with AdjT of 245 or slower.

Sweet 16 teams with tempo in the top 100? 4, of those only 1 got to the elite 8 and 0 to the final 4.

That is what reality is. People can think whatever they want, but the facts are the facts. We did not lose because it was a slow game. We get beat in that game no matter how many possessions there are because we are flat out not good enough as a team right now. That's it.

Until Mick finds a way to coach offense we are going to be screwed. Until he learns to teach the team to attack a defense instead of throw lollipop passes for 20 seconds 30 feet from the basket, we're going to be screwed. Those are the real issues. Well that and the fact we are so careless with the ball.

Wanna know why we lost yesterday? We made it a 7 point game with 12:44 to go. Our next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a layup, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover. We went from the 12:44 mark to the 9:00 timeout and took 1 shot and turned it over 5 times.

bearcat8290 · 12-13-2015, 06:43 AM

I don't get it. We had a week to prepare for the 1-3-1. A defense everyone knew we would see. What do we do? Pass the ball back and forth and across court above the key. I'm surprised we did not have more turnovers. We either have to beat the front man of this zone off the dribble or get the ball to the elbow. Either or and we will beat that defense. We did neither. Once the ball goes into the elbow or the guard breaks down the defense, then we pass to forwards on the baseline when the three move to up to help. Don't get it.

WAITE HOYT 2 · 12-13-2015, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

This is just absolute bullcrap. I posted the stats before so I'll post them again.

Of the teams that made the sweet 16 last year 10 had a AdjT of 150th or lower, 6 220 or lower.

4 elite 8 teams had an AdjT of 223 or slower.

Final 4 had 3 teams with AdjT of 245 or slower.

Sweet 16 teams with tempo in the top 100? 4, of those only 1 got to the elite 8 and 0 to the final 4.

That is what reality is. People can think whatever they want, but the facts are the facts. We did not lose because it was a slow game. We get beat in that game no matter how many possessions there are because we are flat out not good enough as a team right now. That's it.

Until Mick finds a way to coach offense we are going to be screwed. Until he learns to teach the team to attack a defense instead of throw lollipop passes for 20 seconds 30 feet from the basket, we're going to be screwed. Those are the real issues. Well that and the fact we are so careless with the ball.

Wanna know why we lost yesterday? We made it a 7 point game with 12:44 to go. Our next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a layup, next possession was a turnover, next possession was a turnover. We went from the 12:44 mark to the 9:00 timeout and took 1 shot and turned it over 5 times.

great post!!!!!
I might also add they are the better team.

~~UCBearcats~~ · 12-13-2015, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2

up tempo looked good against cupcakes but against better competition we look very average. we do not make enough shots. Fact is we are the not a very athletic team either. Probably our three most athletic players are turnover machines. Ellis,Shaq and KJ.they combined for 11 of 16 TO's. Walking the ball up the floor versus running is not the issue. We got out played by a better team with better players. Their 1-3-1 zone killed us.

You know what else only looks good against cupcakes and never wins against a real team????? First one to 50 wins, Mick's favorite strategy which NEVER works against good teams.

I don't care about pace, toughness, turnovers or any of anyone else's excuses. You can't come into Cintas and score 55 points and leave with a win, it's as simple as that. I don't care why it happened I just care that Mick fixes it and finally once and for all realizes that his philosophies on basketball are dogshit.

jimbearcat · 12-13-2015, 08:13 AM

What a terrible game we played! We have no offensive consistency. Unless
Mick does something special with this team the rest of the season, then maybe
it's time to move on. We have all of our starters back from last year & we can't make baskets on a consistent basis. I AM SO FREAKN' TIRED OF HEARING YOU DON'T WIN WHEN YOU DON'T PLAY DEFENSE. "News Flash"
you don't win if you don't put the ball in the basket & out score the opponent.
For ten years we have had terrible, pathetic offensive teams. I'm sick and
tired of playing patsies prior to the conference season & then can't beat XU.
I have been a Mick supporter since day one but my patience has run out. We need to recruit shooters & basketball players with basketball skills. It's BS when Mick says today's players are taught the basics & he has to teach them at the college level. XU makes shots from all over the court, can dribble, rebound, play defense & beat the crap out of us on a consistent basis.
Just my humble, pissed off over losing to XU again, opinion.

indydoug · 12-13-2015, 08:15 AM

Stop and think about this. Has ANY team of UC 's caliber ( forget about what that is for a moment) EVER had a starting 5 who simply have not mastered or simply do not understand the art of......PASSING!!!! Whether it's finding the proper angle on an entry pass or passing out of a double team or passing against a 1-3-1 defense. That to me is the most remarkable aspect of not just this edition but most all of UC's teams under MICK. Sadly the best 2 passers on the team are the 2 freshmen and their minutes are limited because of supposed defensive liabilities. I would spend the next 10 practices on passing fundamentals and drills. Watching XU pass and UC was like watching a jr. High and college team. Sure they can make passes vs. cupcakes, but not quality teams. We have become XU 's bi**h.

Doogle · 12-13-2015, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCBearcats

When you hold a very good team like Xavier to 65 points you should win the game. I don't care about defense, turnovers, rebounds, toughness or any of the other typical BS we always hear. Find a way to put the ball in the basket or you'll never have elite teams. It's as simple as that. Want to know why Xavier beats us ever year???? Because they score more points than we do. Want to know why Mack is a better coach than Mick??? Because he recruits guys who can score.

It's actually pretty f'ing simple, not sure why we always need to make it so difficult.

Bottom line. Guess we'll have to wait until the end of the season to pass full judgment.

Bearcat_NTS · 12-13-2015, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydoug

Stop and think about this. Has ANY team of UC 's caliber ( forget about what that is for a moment) EVER had a starting 5 who simply have not mastered or simply do not understand the art of......PASSING!!!! Whether it's finding the proper angle on an entry pass or passing out of a double team or passing against a 1-3-1 defense. That to me is the most remarkable aspect of not just this edition but most all of UC's teams under MICK. Sadly the best 2 passers on the team are the 2 freshmen and their minutes are limited because of supposed defensive liabilities. I would spend the next 10 practices on passing fundamentals and drills. Watching XU pass and UC was like watching a jr. High and college team. Sure they can make passes vs. cupcakes, but not quality teams. We have become XU 's bi**h.

Cincinnati had 17 assists on 21 field goals. Xavier only had 14 assists.

Doogle · 12-13-2015, 08:55 AM

You guys are making some really astute points. And the more thought I give it, the more obvious it becomes. You win at this level with guards, or at least a player or two with the ability to do something off the bounce - drive, create a shot for himself or someone else, etc. Honestly, it looks like the only guy with a desire to do that is Shaq and unfortunately, his dribbling skills are eerily similar to mine?

Is Troy that guy? Honestly? Or is it like some have said here - that Troy is playing out of position and needs to be off the ball? I'm slowly getting to the point where I'd rather hand the keys over to Jenifer and Evans, live with their rookie mistakes, and let them roll. Jenifer at least shows some desire to make plays, along with some skill. Defense is an issue but it's not like Troy didn't get caught out of position 3-5 times yesterday.

Walk it up all you want but RUN AN OFFENSE.

12-13-2015, 06:43 AM	#563
bearcat8290 Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 150	I don't get it. We had a week to prepare for the 1-3-1. A defense everyone knew we would see. What do we do? Pass the ball back and forth and across court above the key. I'm surprised we did not have more turnovers. We either have to beat the front man of this zone off the dribble or get the ball to the elbow. Either or and we will beat that defense. We did neither. Once the ball goes into the elbow or the guard breaks down the defense, then we pass to forwards on the baseline when the three move to up to help. Don't get it.

12-13-2015, 08:13 AM	#566
jimbearcat Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 10	What a terrible game we played! We have no offensive consistency. Unless Mick does something special with this team the rest of the season, then maybe it's time to move on. We have all of our starters back from last year & we can't make baskets on a consistent basis. I AM SO FREAKN' TIRED OF HEARING YOU DON'T WIN WHEN YOU DON'T PLAY DEFENSE. "News Flash" you don't win if you don't put the ball in the basket & out score the opponent. For ten years we have had terrible, pathetic offensive teams. I'm sick and tired of playing patsies prior to the conference season & then can't beat XU. I have been a Mick supporter since day one but my patience has run out. We need to recruit shooters & basketball players with basketball skills. It's BS when Mick says today's players are taught the basics & he has to teach them at the college level. XU makes shots from all over the court, can dribble, rebound, play defense & beat the crap out of us on a consistent basis. Just my humble, pissed off over losing to XU again, opinion.

12-13-2015, 08:15 AM	#567
indydoug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 348	Stop and think about this. Has ANY team of UC 's caliber ( forget about what that is for a moment) EVER had a starting 5 who simply have not mastered or simply do not understand the art of......PASSING!!!! Whether it's finding the proper angle on an entry pass or passing out of a double team or passing against a 1-3-1 defense. That to me is the most remarkable aspect of not just this edition but most all of UC's teams under MICK. Sadly the best 2 passers on the team are the 2 freshmen and their minutes are limited because of supposed defensive liabilities. I would spend the next 10 practices on passing fundamentals and drills. Watching XU pass and UC was like watching a jr. High and college team. Sure they can make passes vs. cupcakes, but not quality teams. We have become XU 's bi**h.

12-13-2015, 08:55 AM	#570
Doogle Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 385	You guys are making some really astute points. And the more thought I give it, the more obvious it becomes. You win at this level with guards, or at least a player or two with the ability to do something off the bounce - drive, create a shot for himself or someone else, etc. Honestly, it looks like the only guy with a desire to do that is Shaq and unfortunately, his dribbling skills are eerily similar to mine? Is Troy that guy? Honestly? Or is it like some have said here - that Troy is playing out of position and needs to be off the ball? I'm slowly getting to the point where I'd rather hand the keys over to Jenifer and Evans, live with their rookie mistakes, and let them roll. Jenifer at least shows some desire to make plays, along with some skill. Defense is an issue but it's not like Troy didn't get caught out of position 3-5 times yesterday. Walk it up all you want but RUN AN OFFENSE.