Possible Recruits

[waterhead]

I don't get the risk with Harvey either. We are talking about the 13th scholly here. Cronin left two spots open several years in a row with no players to fill them. Harvey would have been a no brainer with open schollies that late in the game. The risk here is the 13th scholly and a player that probably wasn't going to play much. Concerning behavioral issues you can cut bait after 1 year on Harvey if you need to. The reward is a potential 4 year player and 3 year starter. The risk is you lose your 13th man off the bench or your 13th scholly.

Who's not going to take that deal every time??? The only risk here is NOT taking Harvey!

[HongKongPhooey]

Originally Posted by sirthought

I do think this move with the Madsen twins is really risky, but I have to trust that the coaching staff knows what they are capable of with regards to development. Brannen certainly has experience at NKU of turning some not-so-top-talent into competitive team players.

And in Mason Madsen's defense, although he might not currently be as highly recruited or ranked as someone like Justin Jenifer or Logan Johnson, he has been the target for some D1 programs that are no slouch. I do think he's a viable D1 player.

And based on the highlight reels, his value to the team might equate someone like Jenifer, who had to develop over time before he really became a productive scorer. He might be a glorified scout team player for a bit, but I think he's too big and skilled to not develop for us. Mason may have a nicer looking shot right now, and has a whole year to develop what his brother already has with the skill to drive to the hoop. His ball handling and passing seem like there is something good to work with.

The big risk is if one the twins does feel like it's not a great fit. Does the other one join in trying to leave? That could be a lot to replace if it's unexpected. Worse, if Gabe doesn't really develop into the wing player we need (or God forbid he's injured), was it worth it to take a guard you probably didn't have to take, given the current backcourt players on the roster? We might find a Mason Madsen in the woodwork without trying, but if he's unhappy and then Gabe wants to jump ship too, was it worth it? I think Marquette's Coach Wojo, who has struck out with two sets of brothers more talented than these two, would say it's not.

But they are committed and they seem like really good dudes to have. So let's look forward to it and cheer for the best! I am excited to see what they can bring to the court.

I echo the sentiments that it's great news to hear how the current players are working to strengthen the team. I think we're in a good place for growth.

other teams have had plenty of success with brothers. Lopez brothers Stanford Morris brothers Kansas Harrison brothers Kentucky Plumlee brothers Duke probably more. maybe multiple brothers transfering out of Marquette says more about Coach Woj than it does about brothers being risky

[TheLongHaul]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Yeah I completely agree and it's another reason why the twins concern me. There's also the possibility that Mason turns into a quality starter and Gabe into a star and they decide to leave together to go to a bigger program that previously wouldn't have recruited them both.

But Gabe looks like a very nice player, so now we hope it works out and that they love it here at Cincinnati. It is concerning that Brannen's two highest recruits have both been high risk guys, I don't mind a risk here and there, but take too many and eventually it will come back to bite.

This argument is completely asinine and you've been trying to spread it on multiple boards. Thankfully people have been calling you out. To call Gabe Mason a high risk recruit is just flat out stupid. There is no risk whatsoever. So they took his brother as well and that makes it a high risk? You are downplaying all the potential positives of having brothers on the same team and only focusing on some outrageous negatives such as they might both leave one day. Any star recruit can leave, transfer, whatever.

IF you want to call Harvey a risk, fine. I'd completely disagree but whatever. Calling the Mason brothers a high risk shows how far your head is stuck up Cronin's ass. I'm sure you were cool with Cronin taking Lance Stephenson, Alvin Mitchel, Ellis (twice - once after he had already been kicked off the team), Lawrence, Jason Henry, etc.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by TheLongHaul

This argument is completely asinine and you've been trying to spread it on multiple boards. Thankfully people have been calling you out. To call Gabe Mason a high risk recruit is just flat out stupid. There is no risk whatsoever. So they took his brother as well and that makes it a high risk? You are downplaying all the potential positives of having brothers on the same team and only focusing on some outrageous negatives such as they might both leave one day. Any star recruit can leave, transfer, whatever.

IF you want to call Harvey a risk, fine. I'd completely disagree but whatever. Calling the Mason brothers a high risk shows how far your head is stuck up Cronin's ass. I'm sure you were cool with Cronin taking Lance Stephenson, Alvin Mitchel, Ellis (twice - once after he had already been kicked off the team), Lawrence, Jason Henry, etc.

Like many others, you resort to calling things stupid and attacking me because your arguments hold no weight. I started posting more on this forum to stay away from this type of angry, defensive, substance-less post.

In terms of their recruitment, Harvey and Gabe each had something that prevented a number of schools from recruiting them (Harvey - legal issues, Gabe - only wanted to play with schools that also recruited his twin). These are things that quite a few schools saw and made them pass. Gabe is initially a higher risk because we had to spend a scholarship on Mason, who plays a position we don't need depth at (and I don't think anyone thinks we would have recruited Mason without Gabe).

Most players choose their favorite school and their decision to stay is only up to themselves. We don't know how much Mason would influence Gabe's decision. But there is the possibility that if Mason leaves due to lack of playing time, Gabe would also leave. That makes the risk of Gabe leaving higher than if we just had Gabe.

As for Harvey, you think Harvey is no higher risk? Than why do you think so many schools passed on him? Even Brannen said that Harvey understands he can't make another mistake.

Where did I saw I don't like Harvey? I said I don't mind taking risks here and there. I'm happy with Harvey. I can be happy with him, while still acknowledging we got him because we were willing to gamble a little. Gabe I think looks great, but is only a 160 rated recruits, we should be able to get recruits in the 150-200 range without any strings attached.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by waterhead

I don't get the risk with Harvey either. We are talking about the 13th scholly here. Cronin left two spots open several years in a row with no players to fill them. Harvey would have been a no brainer with open schollies that late in the game. The risk here is the 13th scholly and a player that probably wasn't going to play much. Concerning behavioral issues you can cut bait after 1 year on Harvey if you need to. The reward is a potential 4 year player and 3 year starter. The risk is you lose your 13th man off the bench or your 13th scholly.

Who's not going to take that deal every time??? The only risk here is NOT taking Harvey!

Well it appeared that we did force Hardnett off team to get Harvey. But I agree, hoping to grab a Harvey type player is exactly why you hold onto the 13th scholarship.

The risk is that Harvey as a Junior or Senior commits an infraction that you could let slide from another player, but can't let slide with Harvey due to his past. Now suddenly you are losing a star player you have given a bunch of playing time to develop and are relying on to play major minutes. Also, as we know, UC still holds a bit of the Thug-U reputation (without reason), if Harvey gets into more legal trouble, his past is something that can be used against us in the media/recruiting.

Just because I think Harvey is high risk, doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have taken him or think something will go wrong. By high risk I don't mean I think it's 50-50 he will get into trouble again either. I'd say he's a few percentage points more likely to get into more trouble than an average recruit. I expect him to have no problems and quickly develop into a star here.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Well it appeared that we did force Hardnett off team to get Harvey. But I agree, hoping to grab a Harvey type player is exactly why you hold onto the 13th scholarship.

The risk is that Harvey as a Junior or Senior commits an infraction that you could let slide from another player, but can't let slide with Harvey due to his past. Now suddenly you are losing a star player you have given a bunch of playing time to develop and are relying on to play major minutes. Also, as we know, UC still holds a bit of the Thug-U reputation (without reason), if Harvey gets into more legal trouble, his past is something that can be used against us in the media/recruiting.

Just because I think Harvey is high risk, doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have taken him or think something will go wrong. By high risk I don't mean I think it's 50-50 he will get into trouble again either. I'd say he's a few percentage points more likely to get into more trouble than an average recruit. I expect him to have no problems and quickly develop into a star here.

I understand what your point is. My personal opinion is you get the talented and likely impact player and reel them in. It's not easy to do so when the opportunity comes up go for it. There is heavy competition for them usually.

I am sure Harvey was vetted to the nth degree by the coaches and admin and they have a good feeling about it or else would have passed. Brannen also knew a lot more than we did about the Madsens and what the drawbacks and positives were. An educated decision was made and by most accounts Brannen is very cerebral and analytical. He saw the positives outweighing the negatives and made Gabe a top priority.

After watching Cronin go with only 11 scholarships filled for what seemed like several years in a row...I would have probably told him to go ahead and put Mason on the roster without Gabe in those years. It's another body and player to use in case of injury etc. When he did use 13 scholarships we ended up with players ranked in the 300's to fill it out which is where Mason is.

It's VERY tough filling out a roster (for a team like UC) with all high 3 star and 4 star guys...you have to get them when you can. When you are down to filling out spots 12 and 13 it won't be as easy to lure them because of perceived playing time.

[waterhead]

By all accounts it sounds like the Madsens are hard working gym rats. I think Prince is in the same mold of players who may/will work dawn until dusk to become better players. Having guys like that on the roster are great examples for others about hard work and they will likely improve more year over year because of their dedication. I don't know if I expect Mason to break the starting lineup before he leaves but I certainly would not bet against it and I think at worst he becomes a valuable role player. He's not THAT far off in talent level and with a lot of dedication and long gym hours...I can see him having an impact at some point.

Some players will do only as much as is required. Give me the guys who are willing to go the extra mile. Kilpatrick worked his tail off to get where he wanted to go. Don't underestimate the internal drive of a player.

[waterhead]

It was hard enough for Brannen to fill out the 2019 class on late notice and to also get the 2020 class started with little time to build relationships. But he did end the 2019 recruiting with Cumberland and Harvey and got things started for 2020 with Saunders. That is a home run IMO given the timing factors in play!

Now you look at 2020 kids who you still haven't had a long time to build relationships with. You get Leal and Galloway on campus but they were likely already sold on another school. You look at Scrubb and think there are way too many variables to put all your eggs in that basket.

So you go hard after your next biggest target. Gabe. You make the play you feel is either necessary to get him or likely to get him. That includes Mason. So what. You aren't playing 13 roster guys anyway and Mason is not a walk on. If he can play mid major ball he can fill a role here too if we need him.

2021 CJB will have had time to build those relationships but in 2020 you still have to find creative ways to get high quality targets since other teams may have been recruiting these kids for years. Let's get Traynor and or Eason. Then we have 1 scholly remaining depending on the portal after the season. We need one more big assuming we can get one of those two. You find a spot for SCrubb if he ends up being available but I'm not holding a spot specifically for him with all the variables in play for him. He would be more of a bonus in line with the kind Harvey was.

[Red_N_Black_Attack]

Brannen has done a fabulous job. Keep in mind he had to "recruit" the returning players, notably Jarron. He has filled out the 2019 class nicely with balance toward 2020.

How many scholarships are open for 2020? They are still recruiting Scrubb (6' 6" SG, Traynor (6' 7" PF), Eason (6' 8" PF) and possibly will find a grad transfer to help balance the classes.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by Red_N_Black_Attack

Brannen has done a fabulous job. Keep in mind he had to "recruit" the returning players, notably Jarron. He has filled out the 2019 class nicely with balance toward 2020.

How many scholarships are open for 2020? They are still recruiting Scrubb (6' 6" SG, Traynor (6' 7" PF), Eason (6' 8" PF) and possibly will find a grad transfer to help balance the classes.

There are 2 spots left open. At least one big and likely 2. The availability of Scrubb would be the only thing likely to throw a loop in those plans IMO. And that could change if a player of ours enters the portal after the year.

If we can get either Eason or Traynor I think we are in a good spot to wait until spring for the last scholly. Maybe a grad transfer big or see what happens with Scrubb or both if we have any player in the portal.