2017-2018 Season

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2

He played 27 against X and 28 against Florida. From my view he could have played 40 in each of those games and the outcome would have been the same.

xavier probably, florida who knows, but there is no way to tell for sure either way.


but 27 and 28 minutes still isn't 30+ and without starting its nearly impossible to get there.


never know what the result of that florida game could have been, but jenifer gave us 23 minutes of 0-3 for 0 points, 1 assist, 1 turnover, 2 fouls and not a single other stat. not sure you can say a more productive player getting those minutes wouldn't have changed the outcome of a game that was close from start to finish.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

xavier probably, florida who knows, but there is no way to tell for sure either way.


but 27 and 28 minutes still isn't 30+ and without starting its nearly impossible to get there.


never know what the result of that florida game could have been, but jenifer gave us 23 minutes of 0-3 for 0 points, 1 assist, 1 turnover, 2 fouls and not a single other stat. not sure you can say a more productive player getting those minutes wouldn't have changed the outcome of a game that was close from start to finish.

think people may be misunderstanding what coach is trying to do. Behind our starting 5 guys we have very little offense with Cane in the starting lineup. We are a bit dependent on two freshman wings to give us some offense if he has to go to the bench. As the schedule gets more challenging I think you'll see his minutes go up. It also will depend on how JJ is playing and how the game is flowing. Things like foul trouble and other events dictate his use. I think Mick likes the flexibility that Cane provides in both spots coming off the bench. That is how he is choosing to use him.

We turned the ball over 21 times against Florida. You are not beating teams of that caliber turning the ball over that many times.

I guess I am a bit old school and I see some real value in having a 6th man of his talents. I was around when Hondo was defining the role for the celts.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2

think people may be misunderstanding what coach is trying to do. Behind our starting 5 guys we have very little offense with Cane in the starting lineup. We are a bit dependent on two freshman wings to give us some offense if he has to go to the bench. As the schedule gets more challenging I think you'll see his minutes go up. It also will depend on how JJ is playing and how the game is flowing. Things like foul trouble and other events dictate his use. I think Mick likes the flexibility that Cane provides in both spots coming off the bench. That is how he is choosing to use him.

its coming off way more as making sure jenifer gets half the minutes than it does using cane as a flexible 6th man. if he was using cane as you suggest, cane would likely be getting more minutes than he is. he'd come in and play PG and SG. he doesn't do that (outside of 2 games vs complete scrubs and mick seemed to experiment with jenifer and broome).


and there is a history of mick making sure certain guys that have been in the program longer get minutes despite not being as good as the newcomer. we can go back a player at a time. cumberland, evans (before shaq got hurt), caupain as a freshman, SK as a redshirt freshman (i had forgot about him but he played 51% of the minutes that year, larry davis played 40% lol). all those guys were flat out better than the guy they split minutes with.


this is not a 1 year thing.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

its coming off way more as making sure jenifer gets half the minutes than it does using cane as a flexible 6th man. if he was using cane as you suggest, cane would likely be getting more minutes than he is. he'd come in and play PG and SG. he doesn't do that (outside of 2 games vs complete scrubs and mick seemed to experiment with jenifer and broome).


and there is a history of mick making sure certain guys that have been in the program longer get minutes despite not being as good as the newcomer. we can go back a player at a time. cumberland, evans (before shaq got hurt), caupain as a freshman, SK as a redshirt freshman (i had forgot about him but he played 51% of the minutes that year, larry davis played 40% lol). all those guys were flat out better than the guy they split minutes with.


this is not a 1 year thing.

Common man! do you really think that he is dividing the minutes up and coaching towards that goal instead of winning. You don't think the time he plays each has to do with effectiveness, how the game is going ,foul trouble, developing his roster and game related issues. You think a guy who has made 7 straight appearances in the tourney has little or no idea in how he wants to manage the game except splitting the minutes up between Cane and JJ or playing favorites. You don't win at this level by being that stupid.

[jacobkdoyle]

Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2

Common man! do you really think that he is dividing the minutes up and coaching towards that goal instead of winning. You don't think the time he plays each has to do with effectiveness, how the game is going ,foul trouble, developing his roster and game related issues. You think a guy who has made 7 straight appearances in the tourney has little or no idea in how he wants to manage the game except splitting the minutes up between Cane and JJ or playing favorites. You don't win at this level by being that stupid.

Clearly not. At least not based on anything quantifiable.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle

Clearly not. At least not based on anything quantifiable.

Jake I agree from a fans perspective but he has access to much more information then we do. Film, practice and what game plan he will be employing. and you also only pointed to one of my points. There are more then one and they all usually come into play in a game. I will reiterate you do not make 7 tourney appearances without knowing how to mange your team.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2

Common man! do you really think that he is dividing the minutes up and coaching towards that goal instead of winning. You don't think the time he plays each has to do with effectiveness, how the game is going ,foul trouble, developing his roster and game related issues.

considering the month those 2 players just had, there is nothing justifiable for them splitting minutes. absolutely nothing. no eye test, no stats, nothing.


so what else can it be? can't even point to turnovers anymore. just like there was no reason for the other guys i listed. i dont think mick is trying to hurt the team, i think he rewards guys for working hard and doing what they are asked to do. that gets minutes from mick, sometimes over a clear skill difference.

[jacobkdoyle]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

considering the month those 2 players just had, there is nothing justifiable for them splitting minutes. absolutely nothing. no eye test, no stats, nothing.


so what else can it be? can't even point to turnovers anymore. just like there was no reason for the other guys i listed. i dont think mick is trying to hurt the team, i think he rewards guys for working hard and doing what they are asked to do. that gets minutes from mick, sometimes over a clear skill difference.

He even says himself that he's loyal to a fault.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

considering the month those 2 players just had, there is nothing justifiable for them splitting minutes. absolutely nothing. no eye test, no stats, nothing.


so what else can it be? can't even point to turnovers anymore. just like there was no reason for the other guys i listed. i dont think mick is trying to hurt the team, i think he rewards guys for working hard and doing what they are asked to do. that gets minutes from mick, sometimes over a clear skill difference.

Now we can agree on something. There is a method to Micks madness. We may not all agree with it but he manages the roster with a thought process. I am sure he is managing the players with the sole purpose of trying to win the game not playing favorites. Again you don't win at the level he has by being stupid or having very little idea how to manage a game or team. now if your saying your not satisfied with his performance based on wins and losses that is another matter.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by jacobkdoyle

Clearly not. At least not based on anything quantifiable.

Oh Jake it is quantifiable. 11-2 this season so far and 7 straight NCAA appearances. He has built a very solid program.