North Carolina Central

[TheLivingLegend]

Originally Posted by IDC

It's not like Cane signed here as a free agent because the owner gave the ok and the coach didnt want him. Mick recruited him here so he wanted him here.

It's on Cane, and any other guard, to know this is not a place they're going to get to play freestyle.

You dont play D, you dont play. It's like that for every player here, Cane needs to either play D or he'll sit. Like it or not that's the reality with this program

His D has been fine?

[GarradJ21]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

we are in big time collegiate athletics. if we are giving PT to guys because they show up early for practice, but are still worse players, then we're doing it wrong.

Yes, I agree. You have to play the best players. But I do feel like there's more to the situation

This Cane stuff will get figured out. I mean he played a lot in the OSU game and he played a lot in bigger games last year. The only real miss managed situation IMO was against Houston when we play @Houston last year and Cane did not play a lot of minutes.

My guess is, Cane wasn't showing the effort this week after the loss to OSU. Out of a Senior guard in our program, Cronin probably wanted to see more out of Cane. When you have guys putting in the effort and hard work in practice and see JJ doing things a senior guard should be doing in preparation and effort how are you not going to reward them especially in a game against the caliber of a team we just beat last night? I think it was to send a message to Cane to wake him up a little. Also, KW and JJ were playing extremely well, so why would you pull them?

Cane was able to run freely the last ten minutes of the game he showed nothing. Let me make this clear, I'm a Cane fan, but I do think there's more to this, and I don't ever hear of Cane putting in extra work or effort.

This falls on Cane at this point. Does he respond or do him and his dad continue to show frustration? Gotta get it figured out and move forward. You're about to be 24 trying to make a push at your last NCAA tournament and a future in professional basketball (most likely internationally)

[waterhead]

I know it sometimes gets a little old around here but we need some veteran guys to step in and talk about the effort that needs to be put in to win games on the glass and defense. The offense is not going to be like last year so we need the staples of our game more than ever.

Tre and Justin in the presser are two guys that really understand that and buy in. Keith is starting to buy in. Logan is a gamer and he just naturally wants to play well on both ends with effort. Cumberland is a natural. Moore gives the effort. Eliel has an endless motor.

Some guys need to work harder at it and they should if they want to get their minutes. Points will come if you can stay on the floor. Broome needs to max out the effort. He has tremendous instinct and should be able to get his hands on more balls during the game on D. Fredericks needs to play harder than others to be valuable enough. Brooks has to be pounding the glass and sending shots into the stands. I am sure Diara wants more than 4 minutes total in 2 games.

If you want to play 20-25-30 minutes you gotta bust your tail out there. You gotta get after it all the time. No shame in getting tired and asking for a breather.

[indydoug]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

the intelligent fans understand its personal with mick and cane. there is no game tape from last year that shows jenifer is anywhere close to cane as a player. the mick lovers will just spew the crap mick says.


justin and keith had good games vs one of the worst teams in D1. good for them that they played well. neither have proven the ability to do it against good competition. cane has. look at his xavier, florida, ucla, wichita st games last year. cane was great the last 5 games of the regular season last year and mick was letting him go. then all the sudden the conference tournament got here and mick went right back to mind games and pulling him after 1 mistake and cane played poorly the rest of the way.



everybody with a brain sees the talent, but mick has been playing head games with him since he got here and shows no signs of stopping. it hurts cane and it hurts the team. you can't rip a guys confidence apart and then expect him to play flawless. as a coach its your job to build it back up.



this years team wont reach their full potential without cane just like last years team didn't.

So you think Cronin intentionally is thwarting Cane's progress? To what end? If you look at KenPom's efficiency ratings for last year, Jennifer was higher. Now, I agree that Broome has more offensive talent and potential, but he has to take some of the blame for his lackluster performance this and last year to some extent (at least in comparison to his 23.3 ppg at SHU). He's not shooting well from 3 early on (they were very close with Cane a little better last year) and has had trouble finishing at the rim. This ain't Sacred Heart and the NEC. I might add that I was also clamoring for Broome to play more last year but let's face it, he has underperformed. If you believe that's all on Cronin, then we agree to disagree. He needs to play better, period.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by IDC

It's not like Cane signed here as a free agent because the owner gave the ok and the coach didnt want him. Mick recruited him here so he wanted him here.

It's on Cane, and any other guard, to know this is not a place they're going to get to play freestyle.

You dont play D, you dont play. It's like that for every player here, Cane needs to either play D or he'll sit. Like it or not that's the reality with this program

its not even about cane. while cane happens to be the player thats the example, the issue is bigger than cane.

cane was brought here after 3 straight years of horrendous offense. it seemed mick realized you have to have scorers too. but then once he's shown up, mick has stuck hard on his defense is the only part of the game that matters. mick shouldn't have signed him and cane should have went to creighton.

[Patrick Bateman]

One major reason for Cane's minutes is because lack of deflections, had zero in first game

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by indydoug

So you think Cronin intentionally is thwarting Cane's progress? To what end? If you look at KenPom's efficiency ratings for last year, Jennifer was higher. Now, I agree that Broome has more offensive talent and potential, but he has to take some of the blame for his lackluster performance this and last year to some extent (at least in comparison to his 23.3 ppg at SHU). He's not shooting well from 3 early on (they were very close with Cane a little better last year) and has had trouble finishing at the rim. This ain't Sacred Heart and the NEC. I might add that I was also clamoring for Broome to play more last year but let's face it, he has underperformed. If you believe that's all on Cronin, then we agree to disagree. He needs to play better, period.

i think mick has stripped away all the confidence cane broome has. that hurts cane's progress. that is 100% on the coach. you know anybody else that has a bad game and loses their starting position and 2 guys move above him on the depth chart that have never proven a thing in their careers? mick has only done that to cane.

you can't compare a player like jenifer's efficiency rating to a guy likes broomes. catch and shoot only players with low usage rates have artificially inflated ratings. its even noted on the site.



many nba players have spoken about how important it is for coaches to not strip guys of confidence. they say a coach isn't going to make a player great, but he can absolutely prevent him from being great.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by waterhead

I know it sometimes gets a little old around here but we need some veteran guys to step in and talk about the effort that needs to be put in to win games on the glass and defense. The offense is not going to be like last year so we need the staples of our game more than ever.

Tre and Justin in the presser are two guys that really understand that and buy in. Keith is starting to buy in. Logan is a gamer and he just naturally wants to play well on both ends with effort. Cumberland is a natural. Moore gives the effort. Eliel has an endless motor.

Some guys need to work harder at it and they should if they want to get their minutes. Points will come if you can stay on the floor. Broome needs to max out the effort. He has tremendous instinct and should be able to get his hands on more balls during the game on D. Fredericks needs to play harder than others to be valuable enough. Brooks has to be pounding the glass and sending shots into the stands. I am sure Diara wants more than 4 minutes total in 2 games.

If you want to play 20-25-30 minutes you gotta bust your tail out there. You gotta get after it all the time. No shame in getting tired and asking for a breather.

we can talk about effort all we want. micks teams will always play hard, you have to give him credit for that. at the end of the day you need offensive talent to be an elite team todays game. the game has evolved a lot the past 10 years. defense is harder to play now than it ever has been, and great defense isn't going to stop great offense.



going for just hustle and defense will win you games. theres no doubt about it. is 1 sweet 16 in 10 years where we want to be as a program? if it is then carry on.

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Originally Posted by indydoug

So you think Cronin intentionally is thwarting Cane's progress? To what end? If you look at KenPom's efficiency ratings for last year, Jennifer was higher. Now, I agree that Broome has more offensive talent and potential, but he has to take some of the blame for his lackluster performance this and last year to some extent (at least in comparison to his 23.3 ppg at SHU). He's not shooting well from 3 early on (they were very close with Cane a little better last year) and has had trouble finishing at the rim. This ain't Sacred Heart and the NEC. I might add that I was also clamoring for Broome to play more last year but let's face it, he has underperformed. If you believe that's all on Cronin, then we agree to disagree. He needs to play better, period.

Couldn't agree more Indy. Accountability and PT are tools many Coaches employ to shape their teams. You earn your opportunities.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

we can talk about effort all we want. micks teams will always play hard, you have to give him credit for that. at the end of the day you need offensive talent to be an elite team todays game. the game has evolved a lot the past 10 years. defense is harder to play now than it ever has been, and great defense isn't going to stop great offense.



going for just hustle and defense will win you games. theres no doubt about it. is 1 sweet 16 in 10 years where we want to be as a program? if it is then carry on.

100% agree we need offensive talent. But that should not need to come at the expense of effort. If Cane is giving his all but is just not capable of great D then that is 100% on the coach for recruiting him. If he's not smart enough to pick up the system then that is also on Cronin. However, if he is not giving 100% it's a different story. In terms of turnovers...I think Cane has addressed the issue fairly well but they have to come from aggression and not laziness or stupidity.

Cumberland is leading the team in turnovers but he gets a pass. I can't really tell you why that is. Maybe because coach doesn't have to get on his case about D or effort IDK. Maybe it's because he's the best passer on the team and he creates a lot of easy buckets for us. Again IDK.

I don't think Cane is in the dog house for no good reason. I am sure Cane is aware of why although I wish I was too. There is a quick trigger with him but maybe it's because he is doing the same things over and over that Cronin has told him not to.

It's one thing for Cane to turn it over early in the clock because he was hot dogging or a lazy pass. It's another thing if he gets one because he has the ball in his hands with 5 seconds left on the clock trying to create. I am sure these things are situational with Cronin.