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Old 09-03-2019, 08:11 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by CinciSportsFan View Post
Called it. Expected it yesterday but the Madsen brothers committed today. Add Traynor or Scrubb and this will be a very very nice class.
Hoping we can nail down either Traynor or Eason next and then maybe pocket one for later unless we can land a stud C or another PF now. I would probably also take Scrubb as the last scholly. I assume we could see a transfer or two again so take any high quality recruit you can get right now.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:52 AM   #42
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I would go with two freshmen bigs. 2020-21 is looking like a down season, currently we will have 7 players or are freshmen/sophomores in 20-21 and only 4 upperclassmen. 2 of those upperclassmen (Moore, Vogt) are guys who haven't looked very good at this point in their careers.

We already saw this year that quality grad transfer bigs are hard to get. It would be nice to add a freshman PF who can contribute immediately (would presumably be Prince's backup). A grad transfer PF is also an option, but if 20-21 is a down year, than it's better to give playing time to younger players.

Traynor is an interesting prospect and a guy I'd definitely take. He has the offensive skills to be a major threat. But his lack of weight and experience playing down low is concerning. Seems like a guy who will RS and hopefully the potential will pay off in a a couple years. I'm not sure his rating will stick, with the way he shot up, I could easily see him dropping back to the 100-150 range.
We definitely have a lot of unknowns right now for 2020 in terms of bigs but we should know a lot more about Dou and Prince by end of year. Vogt will remain a question but Brannen seems to think he can contribute at least some of what he is going to need and he will know the system very well.

If we can grab Traynor or Eason next...we can wait to see how the others are playing. Potentially Davenport can add a little bit for us as a taller wing/small ball 4. If we plan to run with one player at the 5 we have Dou and Vogt. Dou can probably play 4 or 5.

It looks like we have the 1, 2, and 3 spots locked up for the future. The addition of Madsen(s) really kind of wrap all of that up quite nicely with depth on the wing and a ball handler.

Even if we take 2 bigs to round out the class...I think we may have room for Scrubb (if he is available) by virtue of a player going into the portal after the year. That could happen with or without any influence from the coach as to what their future role looks like.

I would not mind a high caliber HS kid or a proven transfer in terms of the last big. I say add both bigs and then see what options are available if Scrubb wants to come too.
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:08 PM   #43
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I really like the addition of Madsen(s)! As it relates to Gabe I think we can throw away his ranking or stars as Brannen clearly/likely sees Gabe as an impact player and he probably sees valuable minutes in both short and long term with him. He put on the full court press for the player(s) he wanted.

A lot of that is due to his actual play and maybe just as much has to do with his character, his brother's character, his families character, their dedication to being gym rats, their attitude etc. Brannen wants the character kids it seems as much as Cronin did. It's good for the locker room. I like the idea that Mason is not afraid to fight through a depth chart to earn his PT. That is confidence!

But Gabe has some serious skill at creating his shots and executing even with a hand in his face. He doesn't seem to need much more than an inch to get his shot off and his trigger is lightning quick (and pretty accurate to boot). He knows how to use his body to create space in the paint or beyond and he has a nice step back jumper game.

I know the stars scare some people as to why we would offer both of them...but this didn't seem like too hard of a decision for Brannen. At worst Mason gives you a pinch 3rd ball handler and SG option...so he adds depth at 2 positions.
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:23 PM   #44
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And how cool is it to see guys like Saunders and Dou and Davenport and others selling potential recruits to help the coaches? Saunders is a very strong recruit in his own right even if all he did was just play ball. But how much more value does he add from a selling standpoint? Clearly Davenport is a positive force in that regard as well. These guys are excited to be Bearcats and their enthusiasm can be or already is contagious. Scott was also very vocal about CJB and playing for him.

The long term relationships CJB built with Saunders and Davenport (and even Scott going back years) can pay dividends beyond on the court production. I never really thought that much about value added from our commits as it relates to future recruiting but I am taking notice now. If they help land high level guys...they are adding additional value that is hard to quantify...in some cases before they ever step foot on the court.

Would you rather have a high quality 3 star guy who will sell your program (and help you land other high level recruits) or a 4 star guy who just keeps his trap shut and plays ball? That additional sales value may just be worth another star in it's own right.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:06 PM   #45
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I do think this move with the Madsen twins is really risky, but I have to trust that the coaching staff knows what they are capable of with regards to development. Brannen certainly has experience at NKU of turning some not-so-top-talent into competitive team players.

And in Mason Madsen's defense, although he might not currently be as highly recruited or ranked as someone like Justin Jenifer or Logan Johnson, he has been the target for some D1 programs that are no slouch. I do think he's a viable D1 player.

And based on the highlight reels, his value to the team might equate someone like Jenifer, who had to develop over time before he really became a productive scorer. He might be a glorified scout team player for a bit, but I think he's too big and skilled to not develop for us. Mason may have a nicer looking shot right now, and has a whole year to develop what his brother already has with the skill to drive to the hoop. His ball handling and passing seem like there is something good to work with.

The big risk is if one the twins does feel like it's not a great fit. Does the other one join in trying to leave? That could be a lot to replace if it's unexpected. Worse, if Gabe doesn't really develop into the wing player we need (or God forbid he's injured), was it worth it to take a guard you probably didn't have to take, given the current backcourt players on the roster? We might find a Mason Madsen in the woodwork without trying, but if he's unhappy and then Gabe wants to jump ship too, was it worth it? I think Marquette's Coach Wojo, who has struck out with two sets of brothers more talented than these two, would say it's not.

But they are committed and they seem like really good dudes to have. So let's look forward to it and cheer for the best! I am excited to see what they can bring to the court.

I echo the sentiments that it's great news to hear how the current players are working to strengthen the team. I think we're in a good place for growth.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:53 AM   #46
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I do think this move with the Madsen twins is really risky, but I have to trust that the coaching staff knows what they are capable of with regards to development. Brannen certainly has experience at NKU of turning some not-so-top-talent into competitive team players.

And in Mason Madsen's defense, although he might not currently be as highly recruited or ranked as someone like Justin Jenifer or Logan Johnson, he has been the target for some D1 programs that are no slouch. I do think he's a viable D1 player.

And based on the highlight reels, his value to the team might equate someone like Jenifer, who had to develop over time before he really became a productive scorer. He might be a glorified scout team player for a bit, but I think he's too big and skilled to not develop for us. Mason may have a nicer looking shot right now, and has a whole year to develop what his brother already has with the skill to drive to the hoop. His ball handling and passing seem like there is something good to work with.

The big risk is if one the twins does feel like it's not a great fit. Does the other one join in trying to leave? That could be a lot to replace if it's unexpected. Worse, if Gabe doesn't really develop into the wing player we need (or God forbid he's injured), was it worth it to take a guard you probably didn't have to take, given the current backcourt players on the roster? We might find a Mason Madsen in the woodwork without trying, but if he's unhappy and then Gabe wants to jump ship too, was it worth it? I think Marquette's Coach Wojo, who has struck out with two sets of brothers more talented than these two, would say it's not.

But they are committed and they seem like really good dudes to have. So let's look forward to it and cheer for the best! I am excited to see what they can bring to the court.

I echo the sentiments that it's great news to hear how the current players are working to strengthen the team. I think we're in a good place for growth.
Yeah I completely agree and it's another reason why the twins concern me. There's also the possibility that Mason turns into a quality starter and Gabe into a star and they decide to leave together to go to a bigger program that previously wouldn't have recruited them both.

But Gabe looks like a very nice player, so now we hope it works out and that they love it here at Cincinnati. It is concerning that Brannen's two highest recruits have both been high risk guys, I don't mind a risk here and there, but take too many and eventually it will come back to bite.
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:47 PM   #47
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It is concerning that Brannen's two highest recruits have both been high risk guys, I don't mind a risk here and there, but take too many and eventually it will come back to bite.
Brannen's two highest recruits are not these twins and I hardly think they are "risks".

Brannen's rated recruits:

(2019 class) Zach Harvery **** (ranked 49th nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Gabe Madsen *** (ranked 166 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mike Saunders *** (ranked 191 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mika Adams Woods *** (ranked 244 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mason Madsen *** (ranked 385 nationally - 247)

Everyone seems worried about Mason and his rankings but those same people didn't bat an eye when we signed Moore (ranked 344), Gillam (ranked 322), Hardnett (ranked 264), Nsosme (ranked 471).

For what it's worth, Mason Madsen was just upgraded to a 3* on Rivals.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:20 PM   #48
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Brannen's two highest recruits are not these twins and I hardly think they are "risks".

Brannen's rated recruits:

(2019 class) Zach Harvery **** (ranked 49th nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Gabe Madsen *** (ranked 166 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mike Saunders *** (ranked 191 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mika Adams Woods *** (ranked 244 nationally - 247)
(2020 class) Mason Madsen *** (ranked 385 nationally - 247)

Everyone seems worried about Mason and his rankings but those same people didn't bat an eye when we signed Moore (ranked 344), Gillam (ranked 322), Hardnett (ranked 264), Nsosme (ranked 471).

For what it's worth, Mason Madsen was just upgraded to a 3* on Rivals.
Zach Harvey is a high risk guy - his past legal problems mean one mistake and he is out. Gabe is also high risk imo due to the above mentioned potential problems with twins who want to play together.

I don't have a major issue with low rated guys - especially bigs, as I think ratings are a bit of a joke anyway. Cronin had success because he got guys who fit his system and who he could develop and I imagine Brannen is going to follow the same script.

The issue I have is with using a scholarship on a guy at a position where we already have a lot of young depth. Mason will be no better than 3rd on the depth chart at either PG or SG and the players he is behind will be within a year of him (unless he redshirts to create a little seperation). Meanwhile, we have a serious lack of depth at PF/C.

Bigs tend to be projects no matter the rating (unless they are 5* or high 4*) and harder to get. As such, most non-blueblood teams are going to have to take lower rated bigs and develop them. If Mason was a 6'8" project I'd have no issue with him at his rating.

Last edited by skyblade; 09-04-2019 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:23 PM   #49
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Yeah, I'd say Zach and Gabe are the risks for reasons mentioned. Not anywhere near the risks this program has dealt with over the decades, but nonetheless. I'm going forward with the assumption all our players are good dudes working to be the best they can.

Just seeing how all these guys are guards makes me nervous about the front court in coming years. Glad Vogt is at least someone onboard who is going to be mature, hungary, and hopefully stronger after his gap year. I'm expecting Cincinnati will be attractive to frontcourt players looking to transfer, especially if this first season under Brannen goes well.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:06 PM   #50
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The biggest risk is not that Gabe leaves with Mason. It’s that they spend 4 years here and never pan out. If they leave we recruit again. If they stay they hold two scholarships for potentially 4 years.

Some of you are worried about the wrong thing.
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