Season Updates

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

It’s also hilarious how people attributed Tre Scott’s play last season to John Brannen.

But they refuse to blame anyone but the player when it comes to jarron, Keith and even Chris Vogt to a lesser extent.

Stuff like that is how I know people aren’t calling this like they see it. They took a stand on John brannen being the guy and they will go down with that ship & defend him til the lights are out.

I was a skeptic from the beginning. But with me, winning cures everything. If we win, I’ll gladly take an L and say I was wrong. Because I expect excellence from this program especially in this busted ass league. If this was mick Cronin coaching this busted ass team in this busted ass league, I’d be saying the exact same things. It goes beyond coaches. I just want to win,

And I’m not sold on Davenport or Harvey yet. JD benefits from being an unknown on the scouting report. He has potential but i don’t think he’s the star player on a winning team that’s top 25.

I literally don’t know anyone defending the coach to death. I know a lot more who are sounding like the opposite of that. Your opinion seems a lot more absolute than others defending.

The defense for the coach for the most part is give it time. If it doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen. Expecting every new coach to have results of other new coaches doing well is short sighted. For some coaches it takes time and others not so much.

Constantly ragging on a coach that deserves a fair shot is detrimental to the program. You are the most impatient type of fan also a lot of over the top hyperbole. I don’t know any fan claiming CJB is the second coming. Just people pointing out circumstances and asking for patience is about as far as it goes in his defense.

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by waterhead

I literally don’t know anyone defending the coach to death. I know a lot more who are sounding like the opposite of that. Your opinion seems a lot more absolute than others defending.

The defense for the coach for the most part is give it time. If it doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen. Expecting every new coach to have results of other new coaches doing well is short sighted. For some coaches it takes time and others not so much.

Constantly ragging on a coach that deserves a fair shot is detrimental to the program. You are the most impatient type of fan also a lot of over the top hyperbole. I don’t know any fan claiming CJB is the second coming. Just people pointing out circumstances and asking for patience is about as far as it goes in his defense.

I’m not against letting it play out. But the excuses are total BS. Every coach dealt with Covid.

Every coach deals with transfers. Every 2nd year coach in the same class of team as UC is doing better then UC.

I just hate the excuses.

If people said UC sucks but I’m not giving up yet, then fine, I’ll accept that. But it’s the excuses that drive me nuts.

And this “detrimental to the program” is total BS. Chad Brendel tried to say the same thing. But the reality is.... losing is detrimental to the program and his business. You want a vibrant interactive message board: Win, you want fans in seats donating money?: Win

It’s simple.

I’m not a revolutionary. I’m a guy talking about his displeasure with the choices the Old AD made and now a 3-7 record with no recruits for 2021.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

I’m not against letting it play out. But the excuses are total BS. Every coach dealt with Covid.

Every coach deals with transfers. Every 2nd year coach in the same class of team as UC is doing better then UC.

I just hate the excuses.

If people said UC sucks but I’m not giving up yet, then fine, I’ll accept that. But it’s the excuses that drive me nuts.

And this “detrimental to the program” is total BS. Chad Brendel tried to say the same thing. But the reality is.... losing is detrimental to the program and his business. You want a vibrant interactive message board: Win, you want fans in seats donating money?: Win

It’s simple.

I’m not a revolutionary. I’m a guy talking about his displeasure with the choices the Old AD made and now a 3-7 record with no recruits for 2021.

I don’t really care what reasoning or excuses are being made as long as there is continuous improvement through the year. And next season to get off to a faster start and faster for following year. Nobody will be happy with long term or even medium term failure to win or make tourney.

Relax! There is displeasure all over. It happened when Cronin was hear most years. I told people to relax then and I do it now. Cronin eventually would do just enough to keep the mob at bay. I don’t know why there always has bro be an impatient mob...but damn there always is unless you are a HOFer.

You have said multiple times you are changing the way it affects you but it’s definitely not apparent. It’s okay to be affected by it but every other post repeating the same mantra gets old on any board.

[skyblade]

I appreciate Justin's takes, yes I get that there are many who are still in wait and see mode. But Brannen has done plenty that deserves criticism and it seems many want to see only rainbows.

Think of some our stars in past years in year 2, Keith, Jarron or Jacob Evans. It's hard to look at this team and see a guy who is a the same level. Davenport is promising, but doesn't look like a star. Harvey has potential, but he's not as good as the above three were as sophomores. Eason has moments, but with how mistake prone he is he wouldn't play for most teams. There are pieces, but I can't honestly look at this team and say I expect a top three AAC team next year.

Then there's transfers. Besides Jaevin who basically fell in Brannen's lap (and who still wasn't good enough to start). Our next best transfer is shooting only 17% from three. Just tells you how bad the rest of them have been. I swear I could do better at evaluating transfers than Brannen (or whoever does it for him) - and that's not because I think I'd be good at it. If Brannen is going to the transfer market to save us next year, we might as well just throw in the towel.

Then of course the lack of recruiting.

Sure, Covid is an excuse for the season. If only one thing had gone wrong, I'd be on board with blaming Covid. I was the one with low expectations for the year because we are a young team. But everything has gone wrong. Players didn't develop, the transfers were/are bad, nobody has been recruited for next year, we are a bad team and don't even get me started on Brannen's insane commitment to playing Vogt (and Rap early in the season). Covid can only excuse so much.

I hope those who believe Brannen will turn it around next year are right. If I was making the decision Brannen probably wouldn't get a year 3. But I expect he will, so I hope he can turn it around.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

It’s also hilarious how people attributed Tre Scott’s play last season to John Brannen.

But they refuse to blame anyone but the player when it comes to jarron, Keith and even Chris Vogt to a lesser extent.

Stuff like that is how I know people aren’t calling this like they see it. They took a stand on John brannen being the guy and they will go down with that ship & defend him til the lights are out.

I was a skeptic from the beginning. But with me, winning cures everything. If we win, I’ll gladly take an L and say I was wrong. Because I expect excellence from this program especially in this busted ass league. If this was mick Cronin coaching this busted ass team in this busted ass league, I’d be saying the exact same things. It goes beyond coaches. I just want to win,

And I’m not sold on Davenport or Harvey yet. JD benefits from being an unknown on the scouting report. He has potential but i don’t think he’s the star player on a winning team that’s top 25.

I don’t attribute all of Tre Scott’s success to brannen. I’m a guy that doesn’t blame the coach for everything, even cronin. I say a lot of it is on the players. You are the guy that blames the coach for everything, unless it’s a coach you like. I’m just pointing out your inconsistencies. You can’t blame him for Keith not being good but not give him credit for Tre. I’ve always say be consistent. I accept criticism of brannen just don’t make it seem like everything is his fault. Sometimes the players don’t improve every year. We’ve had plenty of them that didn’t improve every year.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I appreciate Justin's takes, yes I get that there are many who are still in wait and see mode. But Brannen has done plenty that deserves criticism and it seems many want to see only rainbows.

Think of some our stars in past years in year 2, Keith, Jarron or Jacob Evans. It's hard to look at this team and see a guy who is a the same level. Davenport is promising, but doesn't look like a star. Harvey has potential, but he's not as good as the above three were as sophomores. Eason has moments, but with how mistake prone he is he wouldn't play for most teams. There are pieces, but I can't honestly look at this team and say I expect a top three AAC team next year.

Then there's transfers. Besides Jaevin who basically fell in Brannen's lap (and who still wasn't good enough to start). Our next best transfer is shooting only 17% from three. Just tells you how bad the rest of them have been. I swear I could do better at evaluating transfers than Brannen (or whoever does it for him) - and that's not because I think I'd be good at it. If Brannen is going to the transfer market to save us next year, we might as well just throw in the towel.

Then of course the lack of recruiting.

Sure, Covid is an excuse for the season. If only one thing had gone wrong, I'd be on board with blaming Covid. I was the one with low expectations for the year because we are a young team. But everything has gone wrong. Players didn't develop, the transfers were/are bad, nobody has been recruited for next year, we are a bad team and don't even get me started on Brannen's insane commitment to playing Vogt (and Rap early in the season). Covid can only excuse so much.

I hope those who believe Brannen will turn it around next year are right. If I was making the decision Brannen probably wouldn't get a year 3. But I expect he will, so I hope he can turn it around.

I’d relax with your evaluation skills. You are the same guy that has been screaming about dou being a star. Also dejulius is good. He isn’t shooting well but he’s doing everything else well. If we judge players simply by their shooting ability, most of cronin players would be considered terrible.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

It’s also hilarious how people attributed Tre Scott’s play last season to John Brannen.

But they refuse to blame anyone but the player when it comes to jarron, Keith and even Chris Vogt to a lesser extent.

Stuff like that is how I know people aren’t calling this like they see it. They took a stand on John brannen being the guy and they will go down with that ship & defend him til the lights are out.

I was a skeptic from the beginning. But with me, winning cures everything. If we win, I’ll gladly take an L and say I was wrong. Because I expect excellence from this program especially in this busted ass league. If this was mick Cronin coaching this busted ass team in this busted ass league, I’d be saying the exact same things. It goes beyond coaches. I just want to win,

And I’m not sold on Davenport or Harvey yet. JD benefits from being an unknown on the scouting report. He has potential but i don’t think he’s the star player on a winning team that’s top 25.

As for you last paragraph, this is my mine issue with you. You can’t give the guy credit for anything. Jd and Harvey are good players. Jd wasn’t recruited by many high majors and in his second year, the first having injuries, he has improved and looks like he can be a solid starter in this league. No one ever said he was going to be a star. You’re arguing with yourself on that. Can he be a good player in this league, great teammate, provide great effort, absolutely. But instead of giving credit for finding him, you would rather say you aren’t sold on him being a star. Davenport is better than most of the players that transferred out right now but because cronin didn’t recruit him, “you aren’t sold”. Ok. Same with Harvey. I don’t know if these guys will be “ stars”. Probably not, but they can be good starters in this league. You guys act like cronin was bringing in a team full of stars every year.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

As for you last paragraph, this is my mine issue with you. You can’t give the guy credit for anything. Jd and Harvey are good players. Jd wasn’t recruited by many high majors and in his second year, the first having injuries, he has improved and looks like he can be a solid starter in this league. No one ever said he was going to be a star. You’re arguing with yourself on that. Can he be a good player in this league, great teammate, provide great effort, absolutely. But instead of giving credit for finding him, you would rather say you aren’t sold on him being a star. Davenport is better than most of the players that transferred out right now but because cronin didn’t recruit him, “you aren’t sold”. Ok. Same with Harvey. I don’t know if these guys will be “ stars”. Probably not, but they can be good starters in this league. You guys act like cronin was bringing in a team full of stars every year.

Harvey is coming off a 4 game stretch where he went 8-12 from 3 and scored 13.5 pts in about 22 minutes per game of action.

It's been a mixed bag with him and much too early to make a call on his long term production. He's been injured for a good portion of his college career thus far. He's probably practiced about half as much as the others in a season also cut short by covid.

But I don't want to hear any excuses.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by waterhead

Harvey is coming off a 4 game stretch where he went 8-12 from 3 and scored 13.5 pts in about 22 minutes per game of action.

It's been a mixed bag with him and much too early to make a call on his long term production. He's been injured for a good portion of his college career thus far. He's probably practiced about half as much as the others in a season also cut short by covid.

But I don't want to hear any excuses.

The majority of players we are discussing are freshmen and sophomores with very limited experience and practice for that matter. Call it an excuse or whatever you want, but if you don’t get experience or get to practice, it’s going to take longer to improve or get better. Don’t see how anyone could disagree with that.

We all want these guys to come in and be great but the majority of the time that doesn’t happen here. It’s odd that we all the sudden expect it to happen now.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I appreciate Justin's takes, yes I get that there are many who are still in wait and see mode. But Brannen has done plenty that deserves criticism and it seems many want to see only rainbows.

Think of some our stars in past years in year 2, Keith, Jarron or Jacob Evans. It's hard to look at this team and see a guy who is a the same level. Davenport is promising, but doesn't look like a star. Harvey has potential, but he's not as good as the above three were as sophomores. Eason has moments, but with how mistake prone he is he wouldn't play for most teams. There are pieces, but I can't honestly look at this team and say I expect a top three AAC team next year.

Then there's transfers. Besides Jaevin who basically fell in Brannen's lap (and who still wasn't good enough to start). Our next best transfer is shooting only 17% from three. Just tells you how bad the rest of them have been. I swear I could do better at evaluating transfers than Brannen (or whoever does it for him) - and that's not because I think I'd be good at it. If Brannen is going to the transfer market to save us next year, we might as well just throw in the towel.

Then of course the lack of recruiting.

Sure, Covid is an excuse for the season. If only one thing had gone wrong, I'd be on board with blaming Covid. I was the one with low expectations for the year because we are a young team. But everything has gone wrong. Players didn't develop, the transfers were/are bad, nobody has been recruited for next year, we are a bad team and don't even get me started on Brannen's insane commitment to playing Vogt (and Rap early in the season). Covid can only excuse so much.

I hope those who believe Brannen will turn it around next year are right. If I was making the decision Brannen probably wouldn't get a year 3. But I expect he will, so I hope he can turn it around.

The term insane is a bit of a stretch. You have to consider the circumstances of the overall impact of making big changes like that. I remember just about every single season when Cronin was here thinking it was stubborn to play some of the below average vets over obviously more talented under classmen. Like it or not there was a purpose to it and we can debate those until the cows come home.

With Rap the main issue was probably bringing him in in the first place but once here you can't just put him on the bench and say my bad I thought you were better than that. In terms of Vogt you have a guy who tested the pro market (forget about whether he should have) and was a significant part of the rotation last year. Probably even won some games for us. Once again you can't just put him on the bench and expect no other ramifications.

You want to get the best 5 on the court...but you also need the bench to have positive attitudes and not get discouraged and brooding on the sidelines. It's a thin line to keep that many guys happy with how they are being used...and cancer in the locker room can break a season. When CJB has his guys in place for 3 and 4 years they will all know their roles a little bit better.

In the end brannen moved Cumberland to point and ran iso which goes against his entire system. Within the first 8 or so games he was able to get Eason and Davenport in for Rap and Vogt who were virtual locks for their positions coming in. Demoting players like that is a delicate situation.