2019-2020 Open Thread

[kskenyon4]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I think people are too quick to judge Harvey. His bad freshman year should have been expected. He was injured for months before he signed, missed most of his HS senior year and spring practice for UC and part of summer practice because of his injury. It's part of the reason a player ranked so high ended up here.

His game reminds me a lot of Keith's, but he seems to have better court vision and a better 3 point shot than Keith did as a freshman. It takes slashers a bit longer to get used to the higher level of college play and also to stop deferring to upper classmen.

I also continue to believe that the freshmen class as a whole is being expected to do way more than is realistic. They are likely to miss significant chucks of practice time due to Covid-19, making the adjustment even tougher. Freshmen who make major contributions are the exception, not the rule.

If we are going to do well next season, I think Keith, DeJulius and Diarra are going to have to be the stars and play major minutes. Harvey, MAW, Rap and Vogt have to be solid contributors. At least one other player (Eason or (?)Prince) needs to step up.

I fully expect this season to look like 2011-2012 and 2014-2015 in terms of contribution. It will be death by a thousand cuts and Keith needs to lead the way.

14/15 is a good comp, not necessarily in position make up, but minutes and points. We had a 8 man rotation that had guys 9/10 still averaging 10mpg. The 8th top scorer only averaged roughly 5 less ppg than the leading scorer.

We need Keith to average 13-14, then just have a ton of guys throwing in 5-9ppg.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by skyblade

I think people are too quick to judge Harvey. His bad freshman year should have been expected. He was injured for months before he signed, missed most of his HS senior year and spring practice for UC and part of summer practice because of his injury. It's part of the reason a player ranked so high ended up here.

His game reminds me a lot of Keith's, but he seems to have better court vision and a better 3 point shot than Keith did as a freshman. It takes slashers a bit longer to get used to the higher level of college play and also to stop deferring to upper classmen.

I also continue to believe that the freshmen class as a whole is being expected to do way more than is realistic. They are likely to miss significant chucks of practice time due to Covid-19, making the adjustment even tougher. Freshmen who make major contributions are the exception, not the rule.

If we are going to do well next season, I think Keith, DeJulius and Diarra are going to have to be the stars and play major minutes. Harvey, MAW, Rap and Vogt have to be solid contributors. At least one other player (Eason or (?)Prince) needs to step up.

I am not sure what you mean by "major contributions" from freshman but I was hoping to see at least one of them be 6th or 7th in the rotation by mid season. By default the worst they can do is 8th (assuming we can use them more than Davenport). If that happens it should mean they will be even better than one of the top 7 guys we expect to be getting minutes. I don't see much more than 15 mpg from any of them but who knows.

As for Prince we've seen as much from him as we have from the frosh and I am not sure we will ever see him on the floor at UC. I think it's between Eason and Madsen for top frosh and from tape I think Madsen has the most skills offensively. I could see a scenario where we red shirt Mikey and play Dejulius at PG and MAW to back him up. Then play Williams, Harvey, and Madsen on the wing with MAW being the guy to plug in if Harvey or Madsen aren't producing. Eason could be the primary back up at the 4 but that depends if we see Dou playing any 4 with Vogt at the 5...and if Eason is ready for it.

[cincrulz11]

I think Harvey has a good chance to start and be a good player. He plays with a very high IQ and I think Brannen prefers those guys. Even with Harvey struggling last year he was still always making the right play on offense. Shooting when he should, passing when he should. Thats very rare for a freshman, and especially one thats struggling.


On defense he's extremely quick side to side for a guy his size and gets a lot of steals.


With a full year getting that ankle stronger and trusting it I feel like he has the best chance of anybody on the team to make a huge jump this year.


Also if we want to talk about going to the rim, all our guards/wings struggling finishing. Harvey didn't get a lot of attempts, but his shooting % around the rim was the highest among all guards/wings (and his wasn't good)

Harvey - 52.9% (only 17 attempts)
KW - 52.5%
MAW - 52.6%
Jarron - 49.4%
Jaevin - 48.1%


Thats not good enough from any of them. Every single one of those is in the Red on barttorvik. Keith did far better as a SO at 62.0%. If we get him back to that and these other guys up, our efficiency should really rise.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

I think Harvey has a good chance to start and be a good player. He plays with a very high IQ and I think Brannen prefers those guys. Even with Harvey struggling last year he was still always making the right play on offense. Shooting when he should, passing when he should. Thats very rare for a freshman, and especially one thats struggling.


On defense he's extremely quick side to side for a guy his size and gets a lot of steals.


With a full year getting that ankle stronger and trusting it I feel like he has the best chance of anybody on the team to make a huge jump this year.


Also if we want to talk about going to the rim, all our guards/wings struggling finishing. Harvey didn't get a lot of attempts, but his shooting % around the rim was the highest among all guards/wings (and his wasn't good)

Harvey - 52.9% (only 17 attempts)
KW - 52.5%
MAW - 52.6%
Jarron - 49.4%
Jaevin - 48.1%


Thats not good enough from any of them. Every single one of those is in the Red on barttorvik. Keith did far better as a SO at 62.0%. If we get him back to that and these other guys up, our efficiency should really rise.

Yep, I’m all in on Harvey. Good IQ, good passer, good athlete when healthy, and shot the ball well from 3 the 2nd half of the year. It’s hard not to be at least solid with all those things going for you. Same with Eason. 6’8, good ball handler, great athlete. Unless these guys don’t work at all on their game, they will be good.

[skyblade]

Yeah, I think Harvey and Diarra are going to make the biggest jumps.

I imagine Keith and Harvey will benefit a lot from having Rap/Diarra spread the floor. Brannen seems to want to run the 5-out offense and this year we will have all the pieces to do so for at least half the game.

[waterhead]

Hell I hope Harvey starts...that would be a very good sign! I wouldn't mind seeing MAW backing up 2 positions (pg and sg). Actually he can back up 3 positions and come in for either Keith or Harvey but play the 2 guard in either scenario. In the end I hope Gabe is the guy backing up the 2 and 3 but he's the frosh so it's not as likely.

[cincyguy13]

Originally Posted by skyblade

Yeah, I think Harvey and Diarra are going to make the biggest jumps.

I imagine Keith and Harvey will benefit a lot from having Rap/Diarra spread the floor. Brannen seems to want to run the 5-out offense and this year we will have all the pieces to do so for at least half the game.

I hope diarra makes a jump. I really do. At least to where he can stay on the floor. If he can I think this team could be a top 30ish team. (With Keith and DD getting eligibility for this year). We have some talent.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by waterhead

Hell I hope Harvey starts...that would be a very good sign! I wouldn't mind seeing MAW backing up 2 positions (pg and sg). Actually he can back up 3 positions and come in for either Keith or Harvey but play the 2 guard in either scenario. In the end I hope Gabe is the guy backing up the 2 and 3 but he's the frosh so it's not as likely.

Yeah, my thought is that if Harvey starts MAW backs up the 1-3, but Harvey slides over to the 3 if Keith is out of the game. We will need at least one freshman to provide some minutes as a backup at the 1-3 as well. Who that will be I'm not sure and it may change as the season progresses.

As I've already said, I don't think it will be Gabe early due to him needing to learn to defend and play with constant intensity. It could be Eason at the 3, but I doubt it as he should be getting plenty of minutes at the 4.

That leaves Mason and Saunders (assuming Davenport redshirts due to knee surgery, which seems to be the rumor). I think Mason may be the surprise. He's known for being scrappy, being tough and defending at a high level. Combine that with being a knock down 3 point shooter and that is a good recipe for getting minutes as a freshman.

Longer term Saunders and Gabe have more upside. But early on it may be Mason who gets the minutes.

[sirthought]

I'm wondering if the school is keeping quiet on Toyambi because he's a foreigner. He went to part of high school in California, but I don't think his parents are living there. So many foreign students have been denied visas in the past year. If he's not on the team they might be concerned he'd be sent back to the DRC.

Not sure how close he is towards graduation, but I hope he's able to finish his degree, for his sake.

[skyblade]

Originally Posted by cincyguy13

I hope diarra makes a jump. I really do. At least to where he can stay on the floor. If he can I think this team could be a top 30ish team. (With Keith and DD getting eligibility for this year). We have some talent.

Diarra made the jump at the end of the season. Yeah it was only a few games, but I see no reason why it won't continue. There were plenty of earlier games that he put if together for stretches (and I still think Brannen could have given him more of Vogt's minutes). There quite a few (no longer just me) calling for Diarra to start in the tournament.

I still don't see us as anywhere near a top 30 team though. I'm hoping for a top 100 team. Too many new pieces and new starters. We will also be relying too heavily on freshman.

I'm not convinced by Rap yet. He was second worst on his team last year in ORTG, shot 26% from 3 and didn't defend particularly well. There are reasons to hope (he was much better in 18-19 and shot 43% from 3), but moving up competition level generally gives grad transfers problems.

I see this year as a development year. 21-22 should be the year we are top 30. Barring transfers we will only lose Keith, Vogt and possibly Rap (he has a chance at getting a 6th year of eligibility).