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Old 08-14-2018, 09:03 AM   #151
waterhead
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Last year we had 5 guys who could score. The only reason to keep Cane on the bench would be if you planned on sending in a full line change "Goon Squad" and keep a guy out there who could score while the rest of the starters took a breather. That wasn't the case. Or if Cane looked to score himself too much and didn't get the rest of the scorers involved. He was 5th in FGA per 40 minutes and 6th if you count Diara so that theory doesn't add up either. He was also 1st in assists per 40 minutes.

Bottom line is I don't want to play "hot potato" this year ending in shot clock violations and bad looks...so we will need guys like Broome, Cumberland, Williams, and Diara in the game when other guys too shy.

If we play Jenifer, Brooks, Scott, we are going to be playing a lot of hot potato and putting undue pressure on Cumberland to make last second miracles ending in an offensive efficiency disaster.

We will need Cumberland out there. We will need Broome out there. We will need Williams out there. If Diara has improved we will need him out there as well...because they aren't afraid to take shots. That doesn't mean they need to take bad shots. Hot potato will lead to a lot of bad shots.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:25 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
Last year we had 5 guys who could score. The only reason to keep Cane on the bench would be if you planned on sending in a full line change "Goon Squad" and keep a guy out there who could score while the rest of the starters took a breather. That wasn't the case. Or if Cane looked to score himself too much and didn't get the rest of the scorers involved. He was 5th in FGA per 40 minutes and 6th if you count Diara so that theory doesn't add up either. He was also 1st in assists per 40 minutes.

Bottom line is I don't want to play "hot potato" this year ending in shot clock violations and bad looks...so we will need guys like Broome, Cumberland, Williams, and Diara in the game when other guys too shy.

If we play Jenifer, Brooks, Scott, we are going to be playing a lot of hot potato and putting undue pressure on Cumberland to make last second miracles ending in an offensive efficiency disaster.

We will need Cumberland out there. We will need Broome out there. We will need Williams out there. If Diara has improved we will need him out there as well...because they aren't afraid to take shots. That doesn't mean they need to take bad shots. Hot potato will lead to a lot of bad shots.
He didn't need him to get offense with the first unit. He had 4 scorers on the floor. He also had his best PG defender out there and a guy who took care of the ball. Coaches way got us a pretty good season save one game.

This years team will have issues out scoring teams regardless who you start unless a few guys really step up. My spider sense tells me if we can't score the ball we better be defending. I would think you will see a bunch of mixing and matching this year.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:30 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2 View Post
He didn't need him to get offense with the first unit. He had 4 scorers on the floor. He also had his best PG defender out there and a guy who took care of the ball. Coaches way got us a pretty good season save one game.

This years team will have issues out scoring teams regardless who you start unless a few guys really step up. My spider sense tells me if we can't score the ball we better be defending. I would think you will see a bunch of mixing and matching this year.
Having a 1st unit kind of implies we had a 2nd unit. We really didn't. We plugged and played. We didn't have a Goon Squad type of wholesale lineup change. In that Goon Squad sense it may have made sense to keep Broome on the bench to come in and help an offensively challenged unit score. But we didn't do that. Evans could play 35 minutes and so could Cumberland if we needed it. Clark was capable of 35 minutes. Kyle probably topped out around 30 minutes.

The whole notion of needing Cane for bench scoring is absurd to me. He was on the bench for other reasons. He was not a ball hog in shot attempts and he lead the team in assists per 40 minutes.

I think it mostly came down to perimeter passing. Cronin wanted to get the ball to the wings and hopefully down to the bigs. Cane wasn't very good with perimeter passing. His attack style will work better this year...but let's not pretend Cane was on the bench to help with bench scoring.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:15 PM   #154
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Having a 1st unit kind of implies we had a 2nd unit. We really didn't. We plugged and played. We didn't have a Goon Squad type of wholesale lineup change. In that Goon Squad sense it may have made sense to keep Broome on the bench to come in and help an offensively challenged unit score. But we didn't do that. Evans could play 35 minutes and so could Cumberland if we needed it. Clark was capable of 35 minutes. Kyle probably topped out around 30 minutes.

The whole notion of needing Cane for bench scoring is absurd to me. He was on the bench for other reasons. He was not a ball hog in shot attempts and he lead the team in assists per 40 minutes.

I think it mostly came down to perimeter passing. Cronin wanted to get the ball to the wings and hopefully down to the bigs. Cane wasn't very good with perimeter passing. His attack style will work better this year...but let's not pretend Cane was on the bench to help with bench scoring.
I'm sure there are a number of reasons why Cane was utilized off the bench. His perimeter passing, he was much better free lancing and Cronin thought his style of play was better suited at the PG spot with the second unit. Which aligns with your idea of him not being effective feeding the post. Lots of times when he was in with Evans and co. he was running the 2 guard with the ball in Evans hands. Many reasons why he didn't start. Cronin probably liked the flexibility he had with Cane's game. Not starting him allowed him the option of adjusting to how the game was going. Like you I think this year we will not have that luxury unless Johnson comes on in a hurry.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:45 PM   #155
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by WAITE HOYT 2 View Post
He didn't need him to get offense with the first unit. He had 4 scorers on the floor. He also had his best PG defender out there and a guy who took care of the ball. Coaches way got us a pretty good season save one game.

This years team will have issues out scoring teams regardless who you start unless a few guys really step up. My spider sense tells me if we can't score the ball we better be defending. I would think you will see a bunch of mixing and matching this year.
and that was a great game until the last 12 min.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:05 PM   #156
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I'm trying to forget that game.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:34 PM   #157
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If we want to talk about last year UC didn't play a single team with a more talented roster. They played 8 games vs teams in the top 25 on kenpom going 3-5 and 0-3 to the teams that were OOC.



that team did not come close to its full potential. thats just the facts.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:52 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post
Having a 1st unit kind of implies we had a 2nd unit. We really didn't. We plugged and played. We didn't have a Goon Squad type of wholesale lineup change. In that Goon Squad sense it may have made sense to keep Broome on the bench to come in and help an offensively challenged unit score. But we didn't do that. Evans could play 35 minutes and so could Cumberland if we needed it. Clark was capable of 35 minutes. Kyle probably topped out around 30 minutes.

The whole notion of needing Cane for bench scoring is absurd to me. He was on the bench for other reasons. He was not a ball hog in shot attempts and he lead the team in assists per 40 minutes.

I think it mostly came down to perimeter passing. Cronin wanted to get the ball to the wings and hopefully down to the bigs. Cane wasn't very good with perimeter passing. His attack style will work better this year...but let's not pretend Cane was on the bench to help with bench scoring.
Cane %shots was 20.1 compared to 13.3 of Jenifer


Cane would never get to 20.1 if he played with Evans, Cumberland, Washington and Gary.
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:21 PM   #159
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All of this Cronin using Cane stuff last year is crazy, looking back at it Cronin mentally screwed with some of those kids head all year long. And once again in the biggest game last year. And Cane perimeter passing or passing to the post wasn’t his strong point is also nonsense. Mick just couldn’t get out of his own way and made some questionable decisions and so did the coaches. But you put your best 5 out there and let them do what they do best and that’s play basket. You can’t control every single minute of the game. And the players have to learn to let some of Micks antics bounce off them. I just hope all this could happen for us this year.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:08 PM   #160
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All of this Cronin using Cane stuff last year is crazy, looking back at it Cronin mentally screwed with some of those kids head all year long. And once again in the biggest game last year. And Cane perimeter passing or passing to the post wasn’t his strong point is also nonsense. Mick just couldn’t get out of his own way and made some questionable decisions and so did the coaches. But you put your best 5 out there and let them do what they do best and that’s play basket. You can’t control every single minute of the game. And the players have to learn to let some of Micks antics bounce off them. I just hope all this could happen for us this year.
Cane has to attack this year and just go YOLO.


I want him and jarron shooting a combined 25-30 shots a game.

That said, people always say Cronin is way too hard on his players. It comes from our fans and our rivals and yet, we have one of the lowest transfer rates in the country.

And generally mick doesn’t recruit kids who want to hear nothing but yes’s from the coach, he gets kids who want to be coached, and be highly demanded of. And he tells them nothing but the truth.

All I know is; cane went from below average to average defender his first 2 years, to grading out as an excellent defender after 2 years at UC. That’s huge. And for kids who want to make money, being a 2 way player is more valuable now than it will ever be.


All that said, I want this to be the year of cane and jarron. They have an opportunity to shine this year. But neither can be passive. And in general, for them, a bad shot might be better then a good shot with the team they have around them.

I’ve watched so much cane on film at SHU that I know we haven’t seen everything he is capable of. He just needs to attack attack attack.
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