Future teams

[TheLivingLegend]

Originally Posted by JoeRunner89

My sentiments exactly

I was a Cronin guy.... Been a season ticket holder for a decade. I said after the Nevada game he should be fired. I said after last years tournament loss to givr him another year. For the pure fact that when you make a coaching change rosters likely implode...

Cronin was very good at rebuilding. But his style of play simply didnt result in big game wins. It just didn't. Watching 60-58 games in the shoe got very old. Watching what should be blowout wins turn into OT games got very old.

Mick had a gameplan and stuck to it at all costs. Zero adjustments. Ever.


At the end of the day you guys can hate bohn for his decision.. But that's not brannens fault. He deserves his shot. Hes got to land some talent eventually and then we see how much he can coach.

I truly believe hos flow to the game is more nba esk. However ots surely concerning he hasnt been able to get any guys to buy in.

[cincyalum2014]

Originally Posted by TheRealUC

Apparently there's that Ellie and LoJo could be moving on as well. Chad also said he's hearing more players could be bailing. One could be soon. If I had to guess, I'd say LoJo is the most likely candidate. That would be the last domino to fall in this shit storm...but 40 minutes a game may be appealing to recruits! This shit is nuts.

What a shit show, I saw JB should have his staff by the end of this weekend so I guess there's some good news. From the sound of all of this, this years team is going to have very few familiar faces.

[waterhead]

So we have a dumpster fire upon us. We have some good players defecting which is also going to hamper our chances of landing quality grad transfers.

I think it's time to switch gears. Bolton would still be a huge get because he has 3 years left...but it's going to be easy for ISU to get in his ear about what is going on at UC and sell against it.

So I think we need to land a few of the HS kids right now to build the back end depth we will need if we can get a nice 2020 class. Try to lock in Williams, Todd, Maidoh, etc. Then we have to find a PG and probably two.

Get the roster to 10 or 11 for this year. It looks like this is what we still will have when it all shakes out.

Scott
Diara
Hardnett
Gillam
Williams
Moore

We need 2 point guards (Bolton please and ?) and two wings (Todd, Williams). I would also throw an offer to Maidoh right now.

[UCats329]

Originally Posted by TheLivingLegend

I was a Cronin guy.... Been a season ticket holder for a decade. I said after the Nevada game he should be fired. I said after last years tournament loss to givr him another year. For the pure fact that when you make a coaching change rosters likely implode...

Cronin was very good at rebuilding. But his style of play simply didnt result in big game wins. It just didn't. Watching 60-58 games in the shoe got very old. Watching what should be blowout wins turn into OT games got very old.

Mick had a gameplan and stuck to it at all costs. Zero adjustments. Ever.


At the end of the day you guys can hate bohn for his decision.. But that's not brannens fault. He deserves his shot. Hes got to land some talent eventually and then we see how much he can coach.

I truly believe hos flow to the game is more nba esk. However ots surely concerning he hasnt been able to get any guys to buy in.

Nobody said they hated Brannen--everyone's on the same page they want him to succeed--but everyone's getting pretty damn concerned about how this is playing out. Exactly what has he been doing the last four weeks? There's no recruiting assistants in place, Cronin's players are jumping ship en masse, and the they don't have a single recruit locked up.

Tick tock.

[cincycpaw]

You know in this situation who I’m most disappointed with?

Former players. Not all, but c’mon. If they actually cared about their program, they could be extremely visible and active right now when UC needs them. Easy to be around when things are good. It’s those that are around when they are not...but helping to make it better...those are the guys you want.

Seems like a few posters here, they’d rather complain and then be able to say “told you so” while things are tough.

I really hope LoJo stays. Mick messed up handling him his freshman year. I have little doubt he would be a star for the Bearcats and that CJB can help him get there way faster and better than Mick could.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by UCats329

Nobody said they hated Brannen--everyone's on the same page they want him to succeed--but everyone's getting pretty damn concerned about how this is playing out. Exactly what has he been doing the last four weeks? There's no recruiting assistants in place, Cronin's players are jumping ship en masse, and the they don't have a single recruit locked up.

Tick tock.

The worst case scenario kind of just played itself out. So as a Bearcat fan I am just going to sit back and watch the new Brannen players grow (when/if we get some) and perhaps enjoy his new style for a year or two before I start getting my expectations back up. It could be 3-4 years now before we could really expect anything big to happen. The 2020 guys will have to be at least sophs before we can expect them to really gel as a team and make some noise I would think.

If we get back to the dance any sooner than that...then I think we have a very good coach on our hands. If he does it in 3-4 years I still think we will have a very good coach on our hands. It's looking like almost a total rebuild so that would be a pretty good accomplishment. The only Cronin guys left after this year and next will likely be Diara, Gillam, and Hardnett if none transfer.

Still can't wait to see how Brannen coaches the game and the players. Will still also be fun watching some budding stars in the making. I think that 2021 season will be where I start to require some higher levels of positive momentum. We will likely be a little too young and inexperienced before that time.

[UCats329]

Originally Posted by cincycpaw

You know in this situation who I’m most disappointed with?

Former players. Not all, but c’mon. If they actually cared about their program, they could be extremely visible and active right now when UC needs them. Easy to be around when things are good. It’s those that are around when they are not...but helping to make it better...those are the guys you want.

Seems like a few posters here, they’d rather complain and then be able to say “told you so” while things are tough.

Good take. Kenyon Martin, James White, etc. were willing to publicly air their strong opinions about Nick van Exel not getting the job and but can't seem to get behind the new coach and sell the program. A net drag on the program--pretty pitiful actually.

[Queens_NYC]

Originally Posted by UCats329

Long time lurker, first time poster: as the great Bubbles of TPB oft said, this is ****** boys.

Hopefully the Cronin detractors are starting to understand just how tenuous the type of success UC has enjoyed over the last decade actually is. When (if) they ever get back to enjoying the same degree of success, hopefully everyone's a little more appreciative about it and doesn't stare the proverbial gift horse in the mouth again--especially if they're still stuck in the AAC or a similarly awful conference when that ultimately happens.

When people were calling for Cronin's head after the Iowa loss I cautioned them that they shouldn't take what Cronin had achieved for granted and that there wasn't necessarily a unicorn coach out there ready to just come riding in to "take UC to the next level." Based on how things have played out the last five weeks--and especially based on where things currently seem to be headed--I'm (quite sadly) being proven correct; Brannen certainly isn't the unicorn the less patient UC fans have been waiting for, and even if he turns out to be a decent coach in the long run this is going to get a lot worse (13-win seasons) before it gets better.

The sad fact of the matter is that UC occupies a very awkward niche in the college sports landscape between pure mid-major and actual power program. By that I mean this: the tools generally required to sustain high level success over the long run simply aren't there: they're not in a power 5 conference, and thus not getting good TV money (to pay McDonald's AA's and would-be NBA players to come play for them), they're not on national TV for most of their games, and they won't get a whole lot of seeding consideration come tournament time. And yet, the fans have experienced *just enough* historical success to believe in their heart of hearts that UC is basically a blueblood and should produce blueblood results (sweet sixteen or bust, baby!)

That's not really an attractive job if you're a coach (which is why a guy whose biggest accomplishment was winning the Horizon League twice got hired), and it's not really an attractive destination either if you're a 4-star player who has options--why not go play for Purdue, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, Oregon, or Texas Tech instead? They all play on national TV pretty much every game and their fans aren't ******* nuts.

It's unfortunate, but here's the reality: on top of all the above, UC has compounded their own situation by letting their biggest selling point--a coach that basically guaranteed an annual tourney appearance--to simply walk out the door. They've even further compounded it by hiring a guy who has never beaten an opponent from the P5 + 2 and has proven utterly incapable for reasons we can only speculate about of keeping a really close-knit team together, although I'm not going to beat Brannen up too hard about it because, again, in light of the above, he really probably was the best option at the end of the day (which is why UC should've held on to Cronin for dear life.)

The state of the program is thus this: their biggest asset (Cronin) is gone, a bunch of his players are gone too (with still more likely to leave), we're almost on week five and the head coach doesn't have an assistant staff in place, and there don't appear to be any recruits--certainly not any of any real significance--in the pipeline. There are about to be seven (7!) scholarships open for next year, and it's almost mid May!

Tl;dr: sorry to bust the optimists' collective bubble, but until something happens to prove otherwise, this is a legitimate dumpster fire, and UC by and large lit the match on itself. We're talking 3-4 years before UC makes the tournament again, and that's giving Brannen the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's actually competent and can turn this thing around quickly.

I don't have much else to add, but here's some practical advice to anyone who's been as pissed off about it all as I have lately: just stop giving a shit. Unlike the post-Huggins fallout this was entirely self-inflicted because the school was too incompetent or arrogant to recognize a good thing when they saw it in Cronin. They screwed up big time, and while you should certainly wish for the best because Brannen seems like a nice guy and the (remaining) players are all good kids, the University don't really deserve your material support after screwing up this bad.

Cancel your season tickets; buy/upgrade some UC football tickets instead--that team's actually worth watching and you might get to be front/center for the best season in school history. Don't bother going to the games if the team sucks; it's just going to piss you off anyway, you already tolerated a half-decade of futility, and you shouldn't be expected to sit through another five year (or longer) rebuild because Mike Bohn and the Board of Trustees was too proud/stupid to pay Cronin what he was worth. Lord knows a lot of people are going to see it that way and your tickets will be waiting for you in 5+ years when they're actually relevant again.

Anyway, that's my take and you don't have to agree. I hope I'm wrong, but this is pretty much what I hypothetically envisioned *before* Cronin even walked; hopefully we get a Monday morning surprise to ease the pain bbefore Cumberland announces he's withdrawing from the draft but still going to Europe, but I'm not holding my breath.

Everyone take your meds but don't drink too much, and go Bearcats!

Fantastic post.

As frustrating as our postseason results have been over the past decade, I'd like to think I haven't taken our overall success for granted, and appreciated Cronin for all the good he brought to the program. I would've liked to retain him by all means but I understand how the "high floor, low ceiling" status of the program had run its course with many fans and likely prevented Cronin from receiving the extension/raise that would've taken him off the market for a move.

I wasn't a fan of the Brannen hire although I recognize he may have been the best candidate considering the limited pool of reasonably qualified candidates who would've been interested. He'll have my support for the next 2 years and then it'll be time to evaluate if the program is heading on a satisfactory trajectory or not.

As frustrating as it is to see a core of players who had a great chance of leading us to an AAC championship break up, I recognize that it's a common product of a major coaching change and should be attributed to players seeking the best opportunities for themselves and not necessarily a no-confidence vote towards Brannen.

It's important that we start seeing some wins in the grad transfer recruiting battles however if we're going to be any bit of competitive next season. If Cumberland doesn't return, next season's expectations will be as low as they ever been in the past decade, and in some ways it'll be exciting to see what this team can do as legitimate underdogs for the first time in ages.

Just to connect my thoughts, I guess I want to see more fans appreciate the Cronin era for its positives in addition to holding Brannen accountable for obvious shortcomings, all while maintaining steady support for the program.

[cincycpaw]

Originally Posted by Queens_NYC

Fantastic post.

As frustrating as our postseason results have been over the past decade, I'd like to think I haven't taken our overall success for granted, and appreciated Cronin for all the good he brought to the program. I would've liked to retain him by all means but I understand how the "high floor, low ceiling" status of the program had run its course with many fans and likely prevented Cronin from receiving the extension/raise that would've taken him off the market for a move.

I wasn't a fan of the Brannen hire although I recognize he may have been the best candidate considering the limited pool of reasonably qualified candidates who would've been interested. He'll have my support for the next 2 years and then it'll be time to evaluate if the program is heading on a satisfactory trajectory or not.

As frustrating as it is to see a core of players who had a great chance of leading us to an AAC championship break up, I recognize that it's a common product of a major coaching change and should be attributed to players seeking the best opportunities for themselves and not necessarily a no-confidence vote towards Brannen.

It's important that we start seeing some wins in the grad transfer recruiting battles however if we're going to be any bit of competitive next season. If Cumberland doesn't return, next season's expectations will be as low as they ever been in the past decade, and in some ways it'll be exciting to see what this team can do as legitimate underdogs for the first time in ages.

Just to connect my thoughts, I guess I want to see more fans appreciate the Cronin era for its positives in addition to holding Brannen accountable for obvious shortcomings, all while maintaining steady support for the program.

I was certainly not a huge Mick fan. I was frustrated early but understood where we were. I felt like Mick had a 2 year shit to show what he could do with the program with Troys senior year and Clark’s senior year. Fantastic teams, no march success. After Nevada had mick been fired I wouldn’t have been shocked.

That said, this past year, while still a frustrating March, mick did a terrific job. He earned more time again and I thought again he had a year of a great team to show improvement. Was expecting either March success in 2020 or a Cronin departure. Thought it would be the make or break year. Maybe he thought that to...so bolted.

It is disappointing to not get to see what that team plus Samari could have achieved. But we are on to a new coach. While it could have been a smooth transition with a mature team in place, that didn’t happen. Brooks set this in motion more than anything else and I really wish I knew what was behind that thinking. So now we have to endure 1-2 tougher years for sure and hope it leads to greater success in March in the future. Sucks to live through those years again. Sucks that we did not get into the P5. The program fortunes would be vastly different.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by TheLivingLegend

I was a Cronin guy.... Been a season ticket holder for a decade. I said after the Nevada game he should be fired. I said after last years tournament loss to givr him another year. For the pure fact that when you make a coaching change rosters likely implode...

Cronin was very good at rebuilding. But his style of play simply didnt result in big game wins. It just didn't. Watching 60-58 games in the shoe got very old. Watching what should be blowout wins turn into OT games got very old.

Mick had a gameplan and stuck to it at all costs. Zero adjustments. Ever.


At the end of the day you guys can hate bohn for his decision.. But that's not brannens fault. He deserves his shot. Hes got to land some talent eventually and then we see how much he can coach.

I truly believe hos flow to the game is more nba esk. However ots surely concerning he hasnt been able to get any guys to buy in.

I was a cronin guy too, I loved the hire when we made it and got so annoyed with all the crap you'd hear at games from the Huggins worshipers.


And then 2 seasons ago happened. The Nevada game you could see coming the entire season because of the absolute refusal to play the best 5 together. You can't only go to that lineup when you needed it, you had an entire season to let them get in a rhythm together.


It was seeing a legitimate top 5 team going down like all the others in the most Mick Cronin way ever that did it for me. I wasn't calling for him to be fired, but this past season is by far the least amount I've paid attention to the program.



I've said this before and I'll say it again. The goal of changing coaches isn't to be better next year, the goal is that the next 13 years are better than the previous 13 years. That 13 years from now we are better than we were at the end of last season.


With the other programs in the AAC stepping up, I don't think our run of dominance was guaranteed to continue with Mick. He took advantage of an extremely weak league for multiple years. Our recruiting has been trending down for years while Houston's is on an upward rise.



One step back two steps forward.