Brannen

[waterhead]

This shit gets old! the end of the X thread and some of this thread. Brannen was cornered with his first year but he managed to field a competitive team with last second recruiting. Vogt helped a lot and Cumberland. We were going to be shit without them. We had significant turnover and now have some decent potential frosh and decent transfers. Just to field a competitive team once again.

Let the man do his job for a few years. He could have sworn off transfers for frosh and mailed in this year or last. But he wanted the seniors to have a fighting chance.

Oh he’s not doing it how I would do it??? Give me a break or give John a break. I and many others gave Cronin the benefit of the doubt for over a decade. I think we can give Brannen a few years (barring catastrophe) to see what happens without the constant questioning

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by waterhead

This shit gets old! the end of the X thread and some of this thread. Brannen was cornered with his first year but he managed to field a competitive team with last second recruiting. Vogt helped a lot and Cumberland. We were going to be shit without them. We had significant turnover and now have some decent potential frosh and decent transfers. Just to field a competitive team once again.

Let the man do his job for a few years. He could have sworn off transfers for frosh and mailed in this year or last. But he wanted the seniors to have a fighting chance.

Oh he’s not doing it how I would do it??? Give me a break or give John a break. I and many others gave Cronin the benefit of the doubt for over a decade. I think we can give Brannen a few years (barring catastrophe) to see what happens without the constant questioning

If not for questioning coaches, I’m not sure what we’d talk About,

If uc was 30-0 and we are questioning decisions then I’d see your point but fans are entitled to question the decisions of millionaires running the program we love. We lost to our rival on our floor where we were outcoached, and outplayed. He’s new but not above criticism. No one is.

We can be critical and still be supportive.


Don’t think anyone has hinted at firing him.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

If not for questioning coaches, I’m not sure what we’d talk About,

If uc was 30-0 and we are questioning decisions then I’d see your point but fans are entitled to question the decisions of millionaires running the program we love. We lost to our rival on our floor where we were outcoached, and outplayed. He’s new but not above criticism. No one is.

We can be critical and still be supportive.


Don’t think anyone has hinted at firing him.

Yah but Jesus we are comparing Sampson and Cronin etc to a guy who has had 1 year and 2 games in his position. The first year he had to fill half his roster on very late notice. Then had to fill half the roster again. He is still trying to figure out who can play basketball when the lights come on.

Yes we have to figure out how to stop the other team...but we also have to figure out how to score. So he has to see who and what is working together out there. If Rap and Vogt play all season together and we are last in D in the conference I will join right in with the criticism.

Can we just give it about 5-10 games and see what develops?

And by the way...if you can't figure out anything other to talk about than critiquing the coach...you might be missing the best part of the game of college BB. All this stuff about "what's our identity" and "I just don't know who we are anymore" is a little dramatic and premature with a new coach. Before we ask him to assume the identity of the last coach or other coaches let's just let the man breathe a bit.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by waterhead

Yah but Jesus we are comparing Sampson and Cronin etc to a guy who has had 1 year and 2 games in his position. The first year he had to fill half his roster on very late notice. Then had to fill half the roster again. He is still trying to figure out who can play basketball when the lights come on.

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Houstons first 4 years with sampson on barttorvik. It does take time to create a culture and get the guys you want.

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

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Houstons first 4 years with sampson on barttorvik. It does take time to create a culture and get the guys you want.

This looks like a fair comparison on a message board but the reality is Houston was nothing when Sampson got there. That is not the case with Brannen.

I’m not saying what brannen did is bad, just saying kelvin revitalized a program that hadn’t been good for years. He had no new arena to recruit to or a long storied tradition (at least as storied as UC)

These aren’t really fair comparisons to Sampson. He didn’t inherit a winning program.

Again all praise to sampson, not a slight to JB.

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by cincrulz11

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Houstons first 4 years with sampson on barttorvik. It does take time to create a culture and get the guys you want.

Yah I was thinking 3 years to see the trend and 4 years to see the full culture he wants. But with Covid upending his recruiting this year...it might take 4-5 yrs to see the finished product. Next year we are likely to get at least 2 more transfers...which means he didn't get his HS recruits with the skills and attitude he wanted to keep his cupboard full of his preferred players.

I think we all know what he wants. It will be interesting to see if he can achieve it at this level. Fast pace, 94' both ways, keep the ball moving etc. If he wants to do big things he is going to have to be top 50 in both offense and defense (or better). He needs to be 8-9 (or more) deep with quality players he can trust to run that much, that fast, and press. Only time will tell.

He didn't really get to run his system last year. I am guessing he may have to make some concessions again this year. But as the cupboard fills up with his recruits he will have what he's trying to create...and then we will know if it will truly work (or not). Unless we blow some games early taking us out of the at large picture...then we might see him work in those frosh a little more to start working on his preferred style. I am not even sure if that is not the best path to take right now for future gains...but as long as we have at large hopes...he should probably do what he has to to win games. He may have to stray from his preferred system again to keep the ball rolling (like last year)...but if it stops rolling...it won't bother me much to get the frosh some experience and start to see the "identity" he is looking for.

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by waterhead

Yah I was thinking 3 years to see the trend and 4 years to see the full culture he wants. But with Covid upending his recruiting this year...it might take 4-5 yrs to see the finished product. Next year we are likely to get at least 2 more transfers...which means he didn't get his HS recruits with the skills and attitude he wanted to keep his cupboard full of his preferred players.

I think we all know what he wants. It will be interesting to see if he can achieve it at this level. Fast pace, 94' both ways, keep the ball moving etc. If he wants to do big things he is going to have to be top 50 in both offense and defense (or better). He needs to be 8-9 (or more) deep with quality players he can trust to run that much, that fast, and press. Only time will tell.

He didn't really get to run his system last year. I am guessing he may have to make some concessions again this year. But as the cupboard fills up with his recruits he will have what he's trying to create...and then we will know if it will truly work (or not). Unless we blow some games early taking us out of the at large picture...then we might see him work in those frosh a little more to start working on his preferred style. I am not even sure if that is not the best path to take right now for future gains...but as long as we have at large hopes...he should probably do what he has to to win games. He may have to stray from his preferred system again to keep the ball rolling (like last year)...but if it stops rolling...it won't bother me much to get the frosh some experience and start to see the "identity" he is looking for.

The cupboard is filled with his recruits.

2 players from the Cronin era are left.

One players like 10 min a game

For comparison , I think Mick has exactly 1 guy he recruited on that roster in year two at UCLA

The culture starts now. And there no Covid interruption in recruiting. It’s the same playing field as everyone else.


I’m not negative on John. But I will call it like I see it. He’s my favorite teams coach. I want to win. Let’s start by beating Furman tonight.


I’ll predict a 75-69 bearcats victory on the back of Keith Williams

[waterhead]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

The cupboard is filled with his recruits.

2 players from the Cronin era are left.

One players like 10 min a game

For comparison , I think Mick has exactly 1 guy he recruited on that roster in year two at UCLA

The culture starts now. And there no Covid interruption in recruiting. It’s the same playing field as everyone else.


I’m not negative on John. But I will call it like I see it. He’s my favorite teams coach. I want to win. Let’s start by beating Furman tonight.


I’ll predict a 75-69 bearcats victory on the back of Keith Williams

Oh come on. The cupboard is full of freshman, late recruiting stage sophs and transfers (who also have to learn the system minus Vogt). When he has some juniors and seniors and a bunch of kids that know the system inside and out is when I will really judge his ability.

As for Covid it hurt CJB more than most because he's not taking HS kids without meeting them (and their family) in person first (for the most part). Other coaches have not done that and we won't know the impact of those decisions for a while. Yes the playing field is even...hard telling if he made the right choice or not. I do respect him for sticking to his guns win or lose. That is a TOUGH call to skip recruiting HS kids for a year. Don't need cancer in the locker room though.

[justinhub2003]

Originally Posted by waterhead

Oh come on. The cupboard is full of freshman, late recruiting stage sophs and transfers (who also have to learn the system minus Vogt). When he has some juniors and seniors and a bunch of kids that know the system inside and out is when I will really judge his ability.

As for Covid it hurt CJB more than most because he's not taking HS kids without meeting them (and their family) in person first (for the most part). Other coaches have not done that and we won't know the impact of those decisions for a while. Yes the playing field is even...hard telling if he made the right choice or not. I do respect him for sticking to his guns win or lose. That is a TOUGH call to skip recruiting HS kids for a year. Don't need cancer in the locker room though.

Didn’t say the winning starts now. I said the culture starts now.

The mick Cronin culture is gone after one year. We’ve had insane turnover. So I’m just saying, this isn’t the first year of his cultural identity at UC. These are all his guys.

Even Keith wiliiams, brannen said he was the protypical guy for his system.

Yes we are young. And I absolutely get that. But to make it seem like he’s still in the process of getting his guys, well that’s nuts.

I haven’t done the research but I don’t there are many 2nd year coaches in college who have less players they didn’t recruit than John has.

Like if Mick’s team really struggles this year (using mick as an example because he also in year 2) then one could say, that he hasn’t had enough time to get his guys and his culture. But it’s not what can be said for this UC team.

We can use the excuse that they are young. I will buy that. And accept it. But not that he doesn’t have his own players.

[cincrulz11]

Originally Posted by justinhub2003

This looks like a fair comparison on a message board but the reality is Houston was nothing when Sampson got there. That is not the case with Brannen.

I’m not saying what brannen did is bad, just saying kelvin revitalized a program that hadn’t been good for years. He had no new arena to recruit to or a long storied tradition (at least as storied as UC)

These aren’t really fair comparisons to Sampson. He didn’t inherit a winning program.

Again all praise to sampson, not a slight to JB.

you post this and then a couple posts later point out only 1 player plays that was a cronin recruit.

so while the program was more established, it wasn't exactly in great long term health and cronin had pretty much quit recruiting.


which is why it will take more than a year to get it to where he wants it to be. if this entire class flops and still can't perform next year and nothing else comes in, its time to start talking.